. >> interesting people talked about dell because of david einhorn this week, so now if you just carry that out a little bit further, people are coming from $14 up to $18 and change now, so, what's good for this refresh cycle is as adam just said you good for ibm and also good for dell and good for hewlett. >> the question with the new mack operating system due to be launched, the mountain lion being known now, tim, i know you have done -- >> that was his nickname in college, too. >> snow leopard. but i mean, i think that these guys are in a great place. i would just -- what's interesting about microsoft, could be having the same conversation two days ago about am, the conversation we had when apple had the intraday. the valuation is very attractive, a company i think actually, based upon -- easy comps for 2013, a place it could continue to outperform the refresh cycle, the early previews on windows 8, this is a much less bug-filled enterprise than we saw with windows 7. i think a lot of great news, guy's making a very good point here. some point you saw it wasn't as dramatic as a well