david faber will have an interview later today at squawk on the street. that's at 9:05:00 a.m. eastern time. >> thank you for that. fiat chrysler struck a tentative deal with the unite aud toe workers union on a new contract. they're not disclosing terms but the pact will eventually end the two tier pay system which gave new hires less than vet can coworkers doing the same job. they'll brief members in the coming days that will vote on whether to ratify the deal or not. let's look at price action, up 0.2% in trade. >> if you're looking to send parcels and packages you'll have to do more. it's going up by 4.9% effective in january next year. the hike applies to domestic, export and import shipping. fed ex reporting earnings before the oepening bell today. in advance, performance 2.5% up so far. >> a mega cable tv merger could be in the works. amc networks, the home of hit shows such as the walking dead and breaking bad is in talks to buy people yul netwo buy premium network starz. amc is up 2.6% in germany and starz is up itself. david faber will speak with the starz ceo on squa

with david faber tomorrow. >>> are tesla employees jumping ship. apple is aggressively approaching tesla employees to spearhead the work on the apple car, known as project titan. elon musk has claimed that apple offered them bonus as large $250,000 to leave the automaker. pete. >> it is interesting. i don't doubt they want to do something in the automobile world. i don't think they want their own car. and the chatter is talking about bmw and would they do something with them. that seems like a bigger possibility more and more. and get themselves into a position to finally start competing. we had the walkman and then the ipad. when you talk about innovation and start looking at all of apple as it has gone through the maturity steve jobs led, it is perfecting. so can apple go after tesla in a way that they've gone after everybody else. everybody had smartphones and they come out with the iphone. it continues on and on. music. they come out with their music. they copy it but get it to the next level and that much better. >> you have to wonder what the

welcome to "squawk on the street," i'm carl quintanilla with david faber. cramer is in san francisco for the dream force contest. steady premarket as the fed meeting gets underway. plenty to chew on including fedex earnings, mma news, the president on the economy, china rallied nearly 5% in the final hour of trade. japan gets a downgraded s&p and watch the ten-year, near 2.3 now. fedex does miss expectations, cuts guidance. shares are down sharply in the premarket. >> we'll have a cnbc exclusive with hewlett-packard's meg whitman. >> and the stage is set for what could end in the merger of the world's two biggest beermakers. first up, so much going on one day after that rally on wall street. the fed kicking off that two-day meeting today with a decision on rates due tomorrow. possibly the first rate hike in about nine years. one barometer of the economy, fedex missing with quarterly earnings and cutting its full year guidance. sabmiller receiving a takeover approach from anheuser busch inbev. you have been busy. this is not something we have been unaware of

we'll take a look at why, and tomorrow david faber's exclusive interview with hp ceo meg whitman.! hi! our cloud - it's a platform based on awesome-ization! really? can it keep our data where it needs to be no matter what country we're in? integrate with our systems to help keep transactions secure? combine customer data with likes, tweets, the weather, to predict trends? that would be awesome. tote? now there's a cloud that understands business. now there's the ibm cloud. big day? ah, the usual. moved some new cars. hauled a bunch of steel. kept the supermarket shelves stocked. made sure everyone got their latest gadgets. what's up for the next shift? ah, nothing much. just keeping the lights on. (laugh) nice. doing the big things that move an economy. see you tomorrow, mac. see you tomorrow, sam. just another day at norfolk southern. >> coming up on the halftime show, will they or won't sne the fed decision with the best way to react no matter the wrout come. speaking of rates, could a hike derail the housing trade? we'll get a reality check from our own guru diana ohlich, and o

>> david faber has been with the goldman media an fence and he mentioned it today. everything comes back to netflix. it is the trade. tim is right. this went from $118 but guess where it held the other day, $95. that is the pivot level. it is netflix world and everybody else is playing in it. i get the fact that valuation is expensive but growth is tremendous. >> i think most people would agree with everything you said but in a world where we test the october lows which is what efb here on the desk has said. you still go with netflix? >> absolutely not. and we can see where it go. probably to $83. and this is a company that if no one else is playing in the world, and you are saying there is way to get online and watch the content, which is not true, so i think this company is expensive and not a competition. >> 1.5 is where it closed. use par $100 so you don't worry about the $85 level that tim discussed. but i believe they should move higher with a market moving higher. >> jell-o, band aid and q tips and what do they have in common. >> bam. >> they are ubiquitous.

david faber, jim cramer. you might call this the busiest day of the week as pope francis addresses congress and flies to new york and chinese president xi flies to d.c. ten-year, 2.11 is going to be the lows for the month. oil continues to look ulgly just above 44. jobless claims, below 300,000. yellen expected to make her first public speech after that big september fed meeting. >> continuing of that major shakeup at volkswagen as martin winterman re-signs. microsoft with a big deal and a $38 billion commitment with boeing. pope francis has departed for the u.s. capital where the pontiff is scheduled to address a joint meeting of congress in about an hour. pope francis expected to speak on a number of topics during yesterday's remarks at the white house. he spoke about climate change, im immigration and ledgeus liberty. he will be the first pope to address congress in this fashion. >> boy, is he different. i have had the privilege of having an audience with the pope two weeks ago in the vatican s he is revol

david faber on hewlett-packard suffering more cuts. more "closing bell" right after this.ogy empowers us to achieve more. it pushes us to go further. special olympics has almost five million athletes in 170 countries. the microsoft cloud allows us to immediately be able to access information, wherever we are. information for an athlete's medical care, or information to track their personal best. with microsoft cloud, we save millions of man hours, and that's time that we can invest in our athletes and changing the world. >>> it is fashion week here in new york city. we're going to take a look at consumers abroad though. specifically the changing shopping trending in china and what that means back home, next. it took joel silverman years to become a master dog trainer. but only a few commands to master depositing checks at chase atms. technology designed for you. so you can easily master the way you bank. which means you can watch movies while you're on the move. sitcoms, while you sit on those. and even fargo, in fargo! binge, while you lose weight! and enjoy a good cliffh

i'm karl kin nilla, david faber, jim cramer. an ugly session in asia overnight. japan was down 4% as the glencore worries made their way around the globe. the oil is up. case-shiller is home prices are up. carl eye sawn's danger ahead individual is is out, filled with words of warning. >> glenwore rebounding a bit. citi for one part sell if the sell-off goes any further, maybe the company should consider going private. >> yahoo planning to forge ahead despite a ruling from the irs, but first of futures are on the rise as stocks look to rebound. meantime goldman lowering the s&p start from 2100 to 2 0uz, cutting the earnings forecast as well. carl icahn releasing his full "danger ahead" video expressing worries about the economy and markets, take a listen. >> low rates by almost definition building bubbles, building real estate bubbles, building bubbles even in the art market, because the fed balance sheet has mush roomed from less than a trillion to over 4.5 trillion, which is a huge almost unbelievable move. and all that money crowds out the little guy, the midd

david faber is off today. premarkets trying to build off the lows of yesterday.he third worst day of the year for stocks. china managed to have a relatively quiet close. adp pretty decent. ten-year around 2.18. oil, inventories and the storage data suggests another build. the road map goes like this. futures higher after yesterday's sell off. will this continue. apple stock now in the red for 2015. one week away from their event in san francisco. and nfl games go online. netflix says it's sanguine about apple competition. there's that word again. >> we're on track for a green open as they try to rebound from a worst job. ahead of the adp, 190,000 private sector jobs added. that's a bit shy of the consensus. manufacturing, 7,000. it's being called a relatively solid number heading into a print that is historically weak on friday. >> you wouldn't tighten based on these, and i know, i regard the tightening camp as basically of two components. one says let's get it over with and the other says let's get it done. no one is saying the data says to do it. if the data de

nobody delivers like david faber. stocks are -- let's say. still in that narrow range right now. dow, s&p, and nasdaq all up slightly as markets continue to look towards this afternoon's fed decision. art cashin will tell us what to expect in just a moment. this just in: 50 million customers' data was not compromised this morning in a security breach that didn't happen. wall street. not rattled. at all. no. not at all. not at all. i mean, look at the day. sir. sir. what went right? what went right? everything. thank you. with threat intelligence, behavioral analytics, and 6000 experts, ibm security will help keep you out of the news. my dad's company wasn't hacked today. cool. >>> stocks in a tight range as we count down to the fed decision in just a couple of hours. let's bring in art cashin this morning, head of floor operations at ubs. good morning, art. >> am. >> reputational risk is what you say is on the line for these guys as they decide what to do. >> i've been talking about it consistently. the imf told them. the semgtsments told them no. the world bank told them no. for

david faber is here with details. a lot of hurdles for this still to happen though, right, david? >> that is true, mandy. it would, of course, be one of the largest deals of all time if it did. there has been no shortage of speculation about this possibility for years. but this morning the clock did actually begin to tick, if you will, on budweiser making this bid for sab when sab came out with a press release saying they had been contacted. under uk takeover law, 28 days is all they have unless it is extended by sab in which to make the formal bid for the company. budweiser has said we are only going to move ahead if we get a recommended deal. meaning they're not going to make a hostile bid. it will be one that the board of sab feels is appropriate, and it will move ahead after that. now, the key for sab may be very well focused on its two largest shareholders, altri, which owns 27% and the santa domingo company who own 14%. they have a significant board representation as well. they may all be represented by the same banker, something of a positive sign if you're budweiser. while

this morning, my partner david faber, we were doing our mad dash segment as we do every day near the bell, i started out by saying, "boy do i hate this market." judgment would make sense when you consider the dow dropped another 180 points t. nasdaq knowsdived a percent-and-a-half and david perfectly played the gate to my frustrated yag. i hate this market. i hate this market! okay. it's just awful! >> chayet a strong word. >> hate. >> you dislick. >> i dislike it. there are sectors, though, that i do like. >> he couldn't be more right. i am no cheerleader for stocks. obviously. despite what a fed official recently said about me on "squawk box." i haven't liked this setup in ages. i'm totally fixated this year is down 20 times in the last 25 years. that's horrendous. nor can i be sanguine when the moment the fed chooses to do nothing. all the commentators talk about is when will the fed decide to act? you know what, it's like a continuous loop of ignorance. more important, there is just too many things that keep going wrong! it's a sick market without any leadership. take its queue f

our david faber asks point-blank is a deal in the works?his is what albrecht said. >> if i had a dollar for every time there was a rumor about starz, you and i could both retire. i think it's fair in an industry where people are as closely aligned we all are in business together. the conversations are going on all the time. that being said, i'm not here to announce anything today. i do think all this chatter does highlight the fact that the premium brands, starz, being one of them, are more valuable than ever before. >> what do you think here? every name in the book has been bandied about. >> starz is an advertiser. they advertise power with us and the new patrick stewart show that came out, and advertising hey a remarkable category for me, and that is precisely to the point that he is making which is it's not about the end of television. it's about television delivered in a new way and effectively channels are going away as we've discussed. it's going to be content. i actually was at the conference, and he was at the goldman sachs conferen

this morning, my partner david faber, we were doing our mad dash segment as we do every day near the

covering ip solutions and networking at robert w.baird saying hp should be a more focused company, and david faber hp's ceo meg whitman coming up on "squawk on the street." let me start here. actually, let me -- starting with david, if i could, for one second. >> sure. >> david, which is this, is this the end of a cutting? is this -- was this just -- was this always part of the plan, an easier way to do it right before this split, do you think? >> you know, meg whitman says that it is the end of the cutting. this is the final restructuring, if you will, andrew, but one has to wonder, i do think that when she came in to run the company a number of years ago, four or more years ago at this point, it was a bloated cost structure with, what, 360,000 employees, and looked at that saying this is one area we have to work on, and how do yo go about doing that? they cut 55,000 jobs in three years as part of the restructuring, and now another 30,000 from the company she is going to be running, right? so 250,000 employees going in down to 220,000, and perhaps they'll do hiring, butt i think that was a key th

i'm karl kin nilla, david faber, jim cramer. an ugly session in asia overnight.e glencore worries made their way around the globe. the oil is up. case-shiller is home prices are up. carl eye sawn's danger ahead individual is is out, filled with words of warning. >> glenwore rebounding a

jack ma regularly speaks to david faber. ng ago david asked him about the question of trust this is what he said in response. i don't really care if you trust me do trust my team. >> trust is transparent. we have 30,000 smart people. if you work with smart people, you have to be transparent. you have to make sure they trust you. you trust them. making sure everybody has the same vision. i don't care if you trust me or don't trust me. i care, my team trusts me. and my customers trust us. if you can do that, whether shareholders trust me or not, not important. they know -- they trust the good result. >> in fairness, since that interview was recorded, he's been quite harsh on his own company saying we're not performing as i expect you to be. >> one other core criticism from the article is they question the growth assumptions. bottom line. about whether or not the company can aftchieve the numbers they' talking about. if you own the stock, you have to read the article and response for sure. >>> coming up, big oil stocks falling s

i'm carl quintanilla with sara eisen and david faber. premarket is up big after the second worst week of the year for u.s. stocks. china trade data was this line. europe is looking at nice gains this morning. ten-year-year-o yields around 2. we sit down with warren buffett at 11:30 this morning. dow futures up making up for almost all of friday's losses after the jobs number. you heard on "squawk on the street" them calling the fed irresponsible but said the u.s. is not poised for decline. >> the i think the u.s. market is fairly valued, and i think the markets in europe, are several years behind the united states. europe is a bit more interesting. we see japan with qe infinity being interesting. that's a relative waiting. would we expect europe to perform the u.s. and japan outperform? probably. >> had some other choice words for mary joe white on the up tick rule. saying all the volatility we're seeing with the swings is not the way it's supposed to work, and says that rule should come back. >> he's been critical for some time, also of

david faber is off. pre-market getting a little squeeze courtesy of mario draghi who says downside risks have emerged, cutting gdp forecast. chai in being closed overnight doesn't hurt. a lot to look at today. 10-year at 2.154. oil is relatively steady. markets poised to open higher. comments getting a lot of attention. jack lew telling steve liesman, we will hold china accountable. twitter's board meeting is today in new york. we will get answers on the permanent ceo role. details of nut tesla x and the lower costs on the model three that will not start production until 2017. draghi holding a news conference. he says asset purchases going smoothly. adding the plans to fully implement them. they see a slower increase in inflation lowering their growth request through 2015. 1.4, 1.7, 1.8. now, they are talking about, can we change the size or duration of their plan? >> they are crushing europe. the dollar is soaring. this is a level that american exporters obviously are saying, are you kidding me. they ha

david faber, back to you. >> we did mention activism earlier in the program.s some activity there, mainly in the name of starboard, that active fund that is activist in nature. taking a 3.7% position in advanced auto parts indicating the company's margins could be far better. spoke to jeff smith, the man who runs aap earlier, and that is where he comes out in terms of the focus, the slide presentation he will present later today. this is a retailer and commercial distribution company. they also supply garages with auto parts it comes down to this idea, they claim that the company can be better in terms of margins versus the two key competitors. auto zone and o'riley automotive have higher ebit margins. can it happen? it is something that he has yet to bring to bear. management turned over a few years ago. he said this is a logistics and distribution business, things like root density play a great role, and so he wants to see them improve on that front. putting some pressure on them do so. brings me to the larger issue of activism. a lot of the shellacking they

i'm carl quintanilla with jim cramer and david faber.ultiple headlines on m and a, more fears of a hard landing in china, glencore, putin at the u.n., icahn with a market warning. futures are lower. bonds, dudley is out saying he still sees a rate hike this year. oil is lower amid a lot of news from companies with energy and materials. we begin with a record breaking weekend for apple. >>> fed calling for at that rate hike. >> a set to become two separate publicly traded companies. >>> but first up apple is announcing it has sold more than 13 million new iphone 66s and 6 plus. it will be available in 40 more countries beginning october 9th. >> look, i think that no one will care. this is a market no one may even care about alcoa which is a major split and that's because the gloom is so palpable. i spent a lot of time trying to be constructive about a market where there are black holes. you mentioned we're going to get to a company called glencore which a vast majority of our viewers don't know that's gigantic. some say $30 billion in deb

david faber is off. ism is out. santelli in chicago. >> ism is not a surprise to the up side. the august read on ism is the manufacturing side. that is the weakest level in a string of ties where 51.5 mid year were the tied lowest levels. this takes us back to may of 2013 to point a lower number. that's not good. the price is under $40. let's go back and look at july construction. we're looking for a number that would be roughly up six tenths. we ended up seven tenths but let's put it in perspective. up 3 . 8, the best since 1998. last month, originally released at one tenth is now up seven tenths. construction spending delivers. ism disappoints and interest rates are still loftier than they were for most of the trade last week. carl, simon hobbs back to you. >> thank you very much. with an eye on what the fed will be will do, let's bring in steve liesman. we have the weakest pace of manufacturing for two years? >> yeah. and the details were not good. when i looked at the different areas in employment production, al

i'm david faber along with sara eisen and kelly evans. jim cramer does have the day off. let's look at futures this morning. you can see we are set up for a lower open. you have been listening to mr. tepper speak for over an hour. not a particularly sanguine view of the broader equity markets. let's see how we are fairing, right around 2.2, somewhere in there. i say it from memory. we won't show it to you. hanging in there around 44, 42 for wti. let's get to our road map. investors seemingly in for a repeat of yesterday's losing session at least at the open. >> the final hurdle cleared in its largest acquisition ever. an exclusive interview with ge chairman, jeff immelt. >>> former treasury secretary, larry summers, standing against a fed rate hike, will join us shortly. >> stock futures giving up some early, early gains, extending their losses from yesterday's clothe close. jobless claims down 6,000 to 275,000. import prices falling 1.8%. that was the biggest drop in seven months. all of this one day after wednesday's big game turned into a big selloff. another 400-point

cramer and david faber are off today. 173,000 is the jobs number for august.utures have been well into the red all morning long. amid a big sell off in europe. bond market seems to think the jobs data is good enough for the fed to hike. tens around 2.15 and oil is north of 46. road map begins with the jobs number falling short of estimates and whether this changes the math for the fed in september. >> and disney flexes its promotional muscle. force friday is upon us and "star wars" merchandise is already selling out. >> also ahead, no news is good news, or no news is news. twitter's board meeting comes and goes without a ceo announcement. >> first up the ball is in the fed's court. 173,000 nonforeign jobs developed in august. that's below consensus. marks the smallest gains in five months. unemployment rate falls.2. that's close to a 7.5 year low. we had some -- we mentioned the revisions. august tends to be revised up on average about 75,000. again, the talk is where is that line for the fed? what would have been strong enough for them to hike, lacquer on the

i'm carl quintanilla with sara eisen and david faber. jim cramer is off today.n addition to the moment of silence here, in about 20 minutes we'll watch the market. a quiet end of the week in china and japan. august ppi unchanged and oil down more than a dollar has goldman says its bear case for crude is $20 a barrel. futures in the red as we look ahead to the fed next week. >> and the new oil order, goldman gets bearish on crude prices. >> and kroger out with results of beat. the stock is moving higher in the premarket. >> first up, oil prices falling after goldman put out a note saying the global supply glut could push the price down to $20 a barrel. cheaper gas offsets the price of your food. futures are getting lower as we wrap up a volatile market week. and david tepper said he's not as bullish as he could be on stocks. >> i'm more bullish. it's valuation. today the stock market on, call it, next year estimates is 15 times earnings. the earnings yield in the stock market is something approaching 7%. this isn't a 2 % slightly more than a 2% ten-year environme

our david faber reporting that yahoo may, in fact, proceed with its spinoff of alibaba shares afterall despite being rebuffed by the irs at the request of a private ruling in favor of a tax-free spinoff. that's crucial to that spinoff. and if -- it's not going to be tax-free, they may not do it. but david's saying, maybe they will afterall. >> shares up nicely, 2.5%. now apple may have some big plans for that watch. but when it comes to wearables, fitbit out in front. up more than 80% since it went public in june. >> it's a technology and research analyst at fbn securities, initiated the stock with an outperform today. he has that $50 price target on fitbit with it trading at $35 a share. i was looking during commercial. are you wearing one? >> no. >> you're not wearing one? >> no. >> just checking. >> i was looking for one. >> why do you like this company? >> i think the wearable trend. at the very beginning of the trend is going to go from 70 million to 500 million by 2020. >> why fitbit? >> it's the market share leader right now. they have a 25% share of this market. apple just with

brother michael to catch a train to meeting at wilmington, delaware former colleague and friend david fabern first plane hit i was able to get out of the city i mentioned earlier a clear friend former colleague of mine we lost that today will say one thing, unlike most people put calendar in a phone, or technology keep calendar, tim used to have a piece of paper, always write down where he had to go to this day i still do it i do that, literally 14 years, i just write down notes to myself because tim used to have a piece of paper would come into every day with former colleague, tobias you know say i did this, i did this so i -- just continue to do it because my way of honorer being him. >> sandra you were in school your husband it was trading with people em. >> that futures markets open for trading my husband was trading he was communicating with people down at new york board of trade the world trade center, and it desk in chicago was able to tell them something was happening, identified it before they knew sitting in the building. >> about unbelievable. >> i was in college a junior in cluj

. >> kyle spoke with david faber yesterday. a little back and forth. we'll look forward to that show. the fed final decision "fast money." as a reminder, that decision will break at the top of this fine hour. 2:00 eastern time. 11:00 pacific. it's going to be a big day. we'll see you then. "closing bell" starts right now. >>> hi, everybody. welcome to "the closing bell." i'm kelly evans at the new york stock exchange. >> and i'm bill griffeth. we're at the stock exchange. but oil has been the story today. crude spiking. in fact, it's up 5 1/2% right now on the back of a couple of things. bullish inventory report and news about u.s. special forces in syria. that move driving energy stocks higher as well today. look at that. in fact, look at conoco phillips up 4 1/4%. >> conoco too has a lot to gain if congress does move on relaxing the u.s. ban on exports of crude oil. i'll keep an eye on that story which the white house says they still prefer their administration to address. we take you live to the nymex for the latest shortly. and fitbit soaring again

i'm carl quintanilla with sara eisen and david faber.year for u.s. stocks. china trade data was this line. europe is looking at nice gains this morning.

i'm carl quintanilla with jim cramer and david faber.nd a, more fears of a hard landing in china, glencore, putin at the u.n., icahn with a market warning. futures are lower. bonds, dudley is out saying he still sees a rate hike this year. oil is lower amid a lot of news from companies with energy and

i'm david faber along with sara eisen and kelly evans. jim cramer does have the day off.set up for a lower open. you have been listening to mr. tepper speak for over an hour. not a particularly sanguine view of the bad

i'm carl quintanilla with sara eisen and david faber. jim cramer is off today.in about 20 minutes we'll watch the market. a quiet end of the week in

david faber, jim cramer.ay of the week as pope francis addresses congress and flies to new york and chinese president xi flies to d.c. ten-year, 2.11 is going to be the lows for the month.

david faber is off today. premarkets trying to build off the lows of yesterday.ar for stocks. china managed to have a relatively quiet close. adp pretty decent. ten-year around 2.18. oil, inventories and the storage data suggests another build. the road map goes like this. futures higher after

david faber is off.rtesy of mario draghi who says downside risks have emerged, cutting gdp forecast. chai in being closed overnight doesn't hurt. a lot to look at today. 10-year at 2.154. oil

cramer and david faber are off today. 173,000 is the jobs number for august.he red all morning long. amid a big sell off in europe. bond market seems to think the jobs data is good enough

. >>> still ahead, an exclusive interview with hayman capital's kyle bass, courtesy of david farbs faber announcer ] whether it takes 200,000 parts, ♪ 800,000 hours of supercomputing time, 3 million lines of code, 40,000 sets of eyes, or a million sleepless nights. whether it's building the world's most advanced satellite, the space station, or the next leap in unmanned systems. at boeing, one thing never changes. our passion to make it real. ♪ >>> my next guest can't seem to keep himself out of news even when he's not on cnbc. he is ryan bass. he's been in the news because hayman has been challenging weak patents to the pharmaceutical industry that it feels do not deserve to be enforced and has been using a mechanism to do that that was developed a few years ago in a particular court and getting feedback for the effort. kyle bass joining us from san francisco. let's start there, if we can. you have gotten a lot of attention, even though you have not spoken publicly about this. why you are challenging these patents? you already lost the first two that you have challenged. many say you wo

in fact, david asman is giving marc faber for the amazing reversal last week. does the gloom doom and boom report publisher think it is a buying tonight today. marc, welcome to the show. >> thank you very much for having me. charles: i love it when notorious bulls are bearish and bears are bullish, those are signals, what made you think last week and even now is a time to change your mind and go along? >> a week ago the market became very oversold because in one day, i think it was tuesday, a week ago or wednesday, we had over a thousand new 12-month lows on the new york stock exchange, and over 600 one year lows on the nasdaq. these are high figures and indicate a very oversold position. i also pointed out at the time, i not expect new highs, and after a sharp rebound which we had over 100 points on the s&p, that the market was again lower. i think we have reached some kind of a tipping point because the markets have moved side wards for essentially the last 12 months, and this year when the crash really happened we were 2% lower on the s&p year to date. charl