and david frum, after a campaign where you attack hillary clinton every day for being reckless with classifiedormation, david petraeus? >> look, i've been saying this all week, people have to stop being so fussy. and you have to stop worrying about little ethical inconsistencies. if you can get david petraeus into the trump cabinet, be grateful. because the situation is so dangerous. the same thing with mitt romney. there are people who watch the show who have many criticisms of mitt romney. if you can get him, if we could explain to the plkt that the job of the president is to tweet while the secretary of state runs the country, that would be a miracle and a blessing. it's really -- the new -- the likely new national security adviser, michael flynn, was a paid agent of russia and turkey. and took intelligence briefings while being a paid agent. as called for the deportation that led to his death of a person who has received shelter in the united states and the turks want to kill. we have a foreign intelligence penetration of the upper branches of american government gathering. if david petrae

david frum, i want to ask you -- >> he has less hope. >> i want to ask him a question, they're related corruption, right? david, your attitude is, this is going to be a totally corrupt administration, follow the money. so explain why -- you basically say, nothing else matters. just focus on this. tell us why. >> i think that -- why is donald trump president? what is he trying to do? he obviously has no ideas. he obviously doesn't have a lot of regard for the job or even much of an agenda, which switches from minute to minute. what he has made clear is that he's going to get rid of all previous restraints, restrictions on presidential wealth-seeking. you know, no one has ever really tried to see, how much money can you make out of the presidency of the united states. but around the world, we have seen authoritarian leaders, sometimes in fairly modern countries, like in hungary, say, i am going to use the lack of transparency in the office to make myself seriously wealthy. and that can succeed. it succeeded in hungary, obviously succeeded in many places in the former soviet union. it suc

more now on this, joining us, david frum, senior editor at "the atlantic" and former speechwriter forgie haberman, a "new york times" reporter who was in the meeting today, tweeted that trump said "the law is totally on my side. the president can't have a conflict of interest and in theory, i could run my business perfectly and then run the country perfectly. there's never been a case like this." that's what he says of this tangle. so what are we supposed to make of this? >> to make of it you're to keep in mind the lesson that with this president unfortunately anything he says must be independently verified. he has a bad habit of saying things that are not true and what he said in that tweet is not true. first, the law does not say the president can't have a conflict of interest. what the law says is that the conflict of interest rules laid down in the ethics in government act of 1978 do not apply to the president and the vice president. the president can certainly have a conflict of interest. it's just that there is no enforcement mechanism to prevent it. what there are -- there are

david frum is a fascinating conservative thinker.he phrase axis of evil. he wrote an important book in the '90s called "dead right" which was a critique of arguments joe has also made about how conservatives had lost their way by becoming more establishment, by becoming big government oriented. but that's an establishment republican view right now. and it's why the bush family is not with trump. it's why a lot of moderate republicans, i think, wish bill weld were at the top of the libertarian ticket because they might be able to vote there. what frum is trying to do is normalize something for republicans is instinctually difficult. >> therein lies the dilemma for not just a lot of conservatives and republicans but a lot of americans. they have looked at boat sites. they're not in love with hillary clinton or donald trump, but they're putting country, as david frum put it there, over party. in a typical side by side, if you didn't love either, you might vote for the republican to support the party and the ticket, where in this case, a

and david frum is a senior editor atlantic and a former >> dickerson:david, on this quef potential conflicts and trump business, what do you make about initial responses how that will be handled? >> not good. i think the very first order of businesses for publics who want to ensure a successful administration is to corruption >> proof the administration. that's going to be a big problem. the surest way to do is that is to passes a law formalizing a law that the president must publish his tax returns: it may or may not be possible. the president may or may not be the way for the public to be protected is for people to know what the president has, whether he receives any benefit, because of the particular nature of donald trump's businesses, everything that happens at the trump organization flows into his tax return. so if we can see the tax return, we can know, is anyone trying to bribe him? has anyone succeeded? >> dickerson: grover, donald trump campaigned on draining the swamp. he campaigned on getting rid of self-dealing in washington. it was not a small issue some will all get worked out

for ta reform ma macguineas reside of t nn-partisan committ for responsible federal budget and david frum is seni editor atlantic a form >> dickersondavid, h qestion potential conflicts a tru business, what do you mak abo initial responses how tha w be handle >> n goo tnk the ver fst order o businesses for publics w wan to ensure ccessf administration is orrupti >> proof t administratio that's going to be a b proble the sure i tha to passe l formalizing law th t president mus publish his taturns: i m or may not b possibl willin t dives himsel b the way f t public protected is f people t kno what tesiden has wheth receienefi becau of the particular nature donald trump businesse everything thaappens at t trump organization flows in his tax return so if c s t t retur cno any tryin t bribe hi has anyo scceede >> dickerson gover, dona trum campaign o drainin t swam he campaigned getti r self-dealing in washington when mike pence was kind o vague, h said, tru me, will all g wke out, woul y exp bghte lin from candida w spe s much time talking abo cangi washington? >> yea look, you want t change

. >> david frum, thank you very much. >> we'll take a quick break there. unc, chapel hill, in north carolina, the woman introducing obama. we'll take a break and come back. [ dinosaur growls ] and his dad earned 2% back at grocery stores and wholesale clubs. yeah! even before they earned 3% back on gas. danny's parents used their bankamericard cash rewards credit card to give him the best day ever. that's the joy of rewarding connections. learn more at bankofamerica.com/getcashback. what? is he gone?? finally, i thought he'd never leave... tv character: why are you texting my man at 2 a.m.? no... if you want someone to leave you alone, you pretend like you're sleeping. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. it's what you do. tv character: taking selfies in the kitchen does not make you a model. . >>> back now at unc, chapel hill, president obama is making a final pitch for hillary clinton, appearing in front of a large crowd there. this is apparently becoming the event on campus today. lets take

. >> david frum, thank you. >>> here's a look at arlington national cemetery, waiting for president obama to speak at the veterans day ceremony. the last of his presidency and we'll bring the comments to you live and why donald trump, big city businessman was so successful in small town america. up next, lifelong democrats and even those who supported barack obama tell us why they chose trump. now that fedex has helped us simplify our e-commerce, we could focus on bigger issues, like our passive aggressive environment. we're not passive aggressive. hey, hey, hey, there are no bad suggestions here... no matter how lame they are. well said, ann. i've always admired how you just say what's in your head, without thinking. very brave. good point ted. you're living proof that looks aren't everything. thank you. welcome. so, fedex helped simplify our e-commerce business and this is not a passive aggressive environment. i just wanted to say, you guys are doing a great job. what's that supposed to mean? fedex. helping small business simplify e-commerce. do you have thecare? coverage you need? open

douglas brinkley and senior editor for "the atlantic," david frum, who's got a very interesting facialh today. mr. frum, we start with you. this notion of the october surprise is out the window. they happen every week. but what happens with the e-mail, with comey coming out, with no e-mail proof underneath it, but this suggestion ten days from an election, how big? >> smallish. look, at the core of these e-mail allegations is the charge that hillary clinton mishandled classified information. that happens a lot in washington. people sometimes lose their security clearances for it. sometimes they have to resign their jobs. on rare occasions, when they act with malice and intention, they face criminal charges. but most of the time, resignation is the penalty. it's important, if there is classified information. it is not equal to the allegation that a foreign power is attempting to manipulate an american election. that has not happened since the 1790s, when revolutionary france tried to sway the united states into war on its side. >> good pivot. point for you, frum. so professor, what davi

david frum. jeffrey, on the legal side, the criticism is that the fbi doesn't usually talk, and comey breached protocol twice and both times to ill effect. the second time now without any basis of fact to support the disclosure. how do you see it, fair criticism? >> well, i think the key issue is the timing. you know, even i, a lowly assistant u.s. attorney in the 1990s, knew that one of the things the justice department, including the fbi, never did was make an announcement that affected an election in the last two months. this is just a rule that's been in existence at the justice department for decades. we can argue about whether comey should have made either of these statements, the elaborate explanation of the exoneration and the announcement of the new investigation. what's really troubling is the timing. doing it 11 days before the election when you didn't have to do it at all, i think that's why you've seen so much criticism of comey by republican as well as democratic veterans. >> so dav

david frum put it very well.ou have some voters, maybe not a big slice, but you're not going to need a big slice to make a difference in this race, who are kind of waking up to the reality that they have to make a choice. so you have that effect. michael, what you hear right now first and what you may hear right before you go in the polls could make the biggest difference. >> i agree with that just so long as we keep in mind that already 20 million-plus americans have gone to vote. that's something new to the modern era. if we were having this conversation 20 years ago, that wouldn't be the case. >> but you're expecting about 130 million, right? >> no doubt. a lot of folks still to come, and most of them on that day itself because of states like my own in pennsylvania where unless for cause, you only get one shot at it. and by the way, chris and alisyn, this is why i think that the comey situation is good for both. because i don't think any minds are being changed. i've been talking about this on the radio, takin

john: he is very -- i want to ask david from -- frum a question.re asleep focused on corruption. your attitude is this will be a totally corrupt administration, follow the money. nothing else matters, tell us why. guest: why is donald trump president? he does not have a lot of regard for the job or even much of an agenda which he switches from minute to minute. what he has made clear his he's going to get rid of all previous restraints, restrictions on presidential wealth seeking. no one has ever tried to -- how much money can you make out of the presidency? around the world we have seen authoritarian leaders, sometimes in fairly modern countries like in hungary say, i'm going to use the lack of transparency in the office to make myself seriously wealthy. that succeeded in hungary and many other places in the former soviet union. it succeeded in other semi-democracies and donald trump is bringing that project to these shores. john: i asked kellyanne conway about this and her attitude is basically he is already seriously wealthy. he is -- if he was

david, appreciate it. jackie kucinich, appreciate it, as always. much more discussion on this. i love frum'se, we have to stop being so fussy on what is going in on the transition. >>> that leads you to the fundamental question. is what's going on with this transition really unusual and to a very extreme degree? what does it mean? we're going to get the perspective of a loyalist now to donald trump. someone who is on his team. iowa congressman steve king. what does he think about it? what does he want to see out of cabinet picks? next. your insurance company won't replace the full value of your totaled new car. the guy says you picked the wrong insurance plan. no, i picked the wrong insurance company. with liberty mutual new car replacement™, you won't have to worry about replacing your car because you'll get the full value back including depreciation. and if you have more than one liberty mutual policy, you qualify for a multi-policy discount, saving you money on your car and home coverage. call for a free quote today. liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance. we'll play something