one of my mentors was david halberstam who once used to talk about that. liked his books but they were more illuminating than others. >> along with the java. but sports is one of the key ways to read about the sociological issues. i have always been interested in race. >> and then moving to p.r.. >> why is it important? >> it is by a bursting yourself into the geography of a place. but that is really where he was shaped. he went to florida university across the river to new jersey and the assistant coach at west point said for the the york giants. he was 45 years old before he got to green bay. but then those magical believe years. in with those two bishops that football aspect that mythologies of competition. but that simple aspect of the book new year's eve, 1967 and. with the packers against the cowboys. >> i had to into our tueber initiative and what that meant by helps me to a dish to the entire culture. when i moved to green bay about one weeks later in the middle of the night where we reliving into this city into a hospital. but every doctor had led

to get to the larger point, one of my mentors was david halberstam, and he wednesday talked about going to the toy department to write be a sports book, i completely disagree with that. his sports books were more illuminating than some of his other work, and i think that sports offers the opportunity to write about several -- along with the drama, which is similar to politics, winners and losers and there's a contest, and there's certain drama to that. but sports is one of the key ways to write about some of the major sociological issues of the united states, including especially race. and i've always been interested in that. >> host: vince lombardi. you moved to green bay for a winter. roberto clemente, moved to puerto rico. >> guest: spent a lot of time there. >> host: barack obama, you traveled to africa. indonesia, hawai'i. why is it important to get into the physical space? >> guest: that's the first law how i do this. good there, wherever it is. only by immersing yourself in the geography and the culture of a place that you can start to understand the forces that shape somewhere,