thank you very much, my name is david hale. the situation in rafa - is david hale.uation in rafa is grim, and the quickest way in which it could be ameliorated would be for hamas to surrender and give up be for hamas to surrender and give up its weapons, obviously it is not going to do that but we know very clearly from the israeli leadership that they have in mind a total victory, so this operation in rafah will unfold notjust in a matter of days but i suspect weeks and months while the israeli leaders try to do what they say they are going to do which is imposed total victory on hamas, difficult as that is to conceive of.— hamas, difficult as that is to conceive of. ., , ., ., conceive of. from your point of view, conceive of. from your point of view. nomi. — conceive of. from your point of view, nomi, what— conceive of. from your point of view, nomi, what is— conceive of. from your point of view, nomi, what is it - conceive of. from your point of view, nomi, what is it like - conceive of. from your point of view, nomi, what is it like in l view, nomi, what is it

joining me to discuss this is david hale, former u.s.assador to pakistan, lebanon and jordan and served as under secretary of state. thank you for joining us. antony blinken said he didn't think there was a dangerous time as now since 1973 if not before that. put into context how sensitive the situation is. david: thank you. it is extremely sensitive and i think he is right to characterize the situation as he did. i would identify the new factor, the new reality we are dealing with in the labonte that we didn't -- in the levant that we didn't face in the past, which is the primary role of iran done did proxies. iran is choreographing what is setting the agenda for conflict with the u.s. and our allies. that is a new dimension to the problems the secretary of state will tackle. caitriona: the u.s. has repeatedly said it dsn't want the conflict to spread through the region. there have been strikes in iraq, syria and yemen. what will the secretary say about what happens next? david: the conflict has spread. i understand why any administrati

we >> joining us now is international human rights lawyer david hale . very good lawyer david hale.resting, isn't it, because we talk so much about people coming into britain, whether it's illegally or legally . but yet here whether it's illegally or legally. but yet here is somebody saying he wants to leave and he can't , but why leave and he can't, but why can't . he? can't. he? >> uh. good morning to you both. i mean, it certainly sounds absurd with all the issues and the problems that we've got. >> um, i don't think this is a case that we see an awful lot. and i think we need to look into the facts of this one specifically. now, what's happened this chap is that happened with this chap is that essentially his his asylum claim was out. should was struck out. so he should have as said earlier have been as you said earlier on, back to his country of on, sent back to his country of origin safe third country. origin or a safe third country. now, that hasn't happened. why is ? and i think the details is that? and i think the details in this case are a little bit thin on the ground. i