he's associate editor and columnist for "the washington post," david ignatius. nvestigations. back in april, david, you wrote this about the president's speech we just played. slow role time at langley. after release of interrogation memo in the words of one officer hit the agency like a car bomb in the driveway. president obama promised cia officers they won't be prosecuted for carrying out lawful orders. but the people in the firing line don't believe him. they think the memos have opened a new season of investigation and retribution. david, that was in april. here we are in august. those a little saw it. they didn't believe the president. they have been proven right, haven't they? >> they have been proven right. the time the president came out, the people felt it was as much a campaign appearance as anything else. the mood was morefestive than it should have been. the mood was it will be turned over to eric holder and he will move for investigation. yesterday they are saying this is the least he could have done realistically. he's not a special prosecutor. he'

david ignatius, columnist for "the washington post," and our own author -- excuse me, author of "body," jonathan alter, columnist for "newsweek" and msnbc analyst, joining us now. i've got you straight. david, jonathan, both of you experts. david, first to you. you talked about the mayo clinic and the doctor in charge there. isn't it time to bring in a super czar, like a general petraeus, to straight, this mess out? >> andrea, in my column in "the washington post" this morning, i did compare the situation that president obama is facing, where he's been traveling the country, the meetings are getting noisier and the debate is getting more and more polarized to what happened with iraq, where president bush lost the ability to speak to the country and finally turned to a professional, general petraeus, to make the case to the country for policy. i think we're reaching that point in the health care debate. and i proposed this morning that the smartest doctor i know about these issues, the man who runs the mayo clinic, known for providing top care at relatively low costs, his name is denni

for that, we turn to david ignatius, a columnist for the "washington post," and jane mayer, staff writeror the "new yorker magazine," and the author of "the dark side: the inside story of how the war on terror turned into a war on american ideals." so my first question is compared to, i guess what you would call, jane, acceptable methods. how egregious are these messages we are hearing about today. >> i think the problems for everyone is when you look at this report what are you looking at is in essence a crime scene. it's very hard to get away from the fact that things like death threats and mocked executions are specifically identified astor ture under the convention against torture. and therefore are illegal and are considered very major crimes. so the problem for the obama administration which inherit head this report and the question about what to do about it is that it is a red flag to any prosecutor. it is very hard to ignore this when you have taken an oath of office that says you're going to execute the laws and uphold the constitution. so they've got to somehow do something wit

david ignatius, associate editor and columnist for "the washington post" and intelligence expert and nbc's own justice correspondent pete williams along with nbc news white house correspondent, savannah guthrie in new york joining us to talk about all of this, picking this apart. first of all to you, david, let's talk about the impact on the cia, taken out of the central role for detention and interrogation. some would say that that is a good thing, because it was nothing but a burden, but it really is a diminishing of the agency. >> talking to people at the cia yesterday and today, andrea, i heard nothing but relief that they're out from under what has been really a nightmare responsibility. going into this interrogation program, a lot of officers had doubts. they suspected this would come back and bite them politically. it has. they're unhappy about being left holding the bag, if you will. but i don't think anybody's unhappy to see this responsibility move away now to the fbi. >> but, what about the fact that they are reopening some of these cases, which could lead to prosecutions.

leadership 101 writes david ignatius. his opinion about arab israeli peace process. real foreign policy test will start as soon as obama begins to make some hard and controversial decisions on the palestinian issue and afghanistan. these would be tough problems even if the president were coasting. but now with his popularity down and congress in a partisan frenzy they will require a different level of leadership. also, jim writes in the sape newspaper, is he weak? if you want to see this president succeed as i do, you can construct an alternative narrative in which he is delowing dust in the eyes of opponents and resolutely moving towards goals that are wordsy. but it hasn't felt that way in this uneven august. in washington the old saw about perception being reality is all too true and all too final. california, you're on the air now. caller: i would just like to say that hillary clinton is nothing but an apac totey and you've got dennis roth wants a war with iran. and he's now over at the national security council. and if anybody wants to know what's going on, we'r