admiral stavridis, you know, david ignatius makes the point about not getting the military involved. we understand that. people didn't want the military involved on june 1st when they cleared lafayette square so president trump could go through the tear gas and hold up a bible in front of the church. the next 13 days ahead of us, what does it look like from your vantage point because as i said at the top, president trump has vowed to continue to fight to make america great in his words. >> well, we are going to have a pack of troubles overseas as a result of this and we shouldn't lose sight of that. think about how this is going received. yesterday, i got dozens of emails from senior military and political figures abroad saying, jim, what's going on in your country? this will have long-term impact on our ability to bring our allies together. do you think the europeans want to stand with us against china after watching scenes like this? they'll have their doubts. exact swing countries like vietnam, which way will they break in all of this? and finally, moscow, beijing. tehran. pyongya

those three i would say are worth thinking about keeping >> david ignatius, thank you very much. roposi any reflection of that that you are hearing from the biden administration. . >> the biden team is obviously still being put in place. certainly it is a consideration to leave some presence there in the middle east in iraq in particular. and i to think they are looking at china from what we have been told. there is a sepbts in light of the events of the laugh year that a tougher relationship is going to be needed there. that will be the defining relationship in terms of foreign policy from this president. but we have seen briefly this biden starting outreach. he had calls with the presidents of canada, mexico, boris johnson in the uk where he is trying to repair and make a more stable relationship than what we saw from president trump. and we also saw the biden white house state department condemn russia's crackdown on the protests we were just talking about in this block. a sort of marked difference in tone from of course president trump who is loathe to ever criticize anything

truly remarkable to listen to david ignatius talk about the u.s. capitol today. we turn to our colleague vaughn hilliard who's on the scene. what are you seeing and where are you? >> reporter: nicole, i want people to see the perimeter that has been set up as congress prepares to enter into the joint session. this is for folks who have been to washington, d.c., you'll know exactly where i am. this is constitution avenue. it's run straight down towards the white house. the capitol grounds here right here on our left here, you can see where the police line has been set up. barricades are set up here. paul rigney is our great photographer. you've been seeing the senate office buildings. that's the russell senate office buildings. senators, there are three different senate office buildings and each senator has an office in one of those buildings. the same goes for members of the house. over on the house side three different house buildings. that's where you've seen a lot of members essentially retreat back to their offices back just down the road here. as you can see

david ignatius, you guys predicted this period was the maximum period of peril we are only beginning um period of power. what will donald trump do, enboldened by what he saw yesterday and desperately clinging to power? what will he do on the domestic stage, on the foreign stage? these are profound questions and i think it raises not only symbolic acts like impeaching the president, but there's some genuine discussion of the 25th amendment is the right and proper thing that should be going on in the government right now. but willie you asked about joe biden and all i can say is i don't know the answer. well, what i think is key is he must approach governing the political situation, the divide in this country with the kind of clarity that he is approaching tackling the pandemic. the most encouraging thing that we have heard from joe biden in the last couple of months has been that he's not under any illusions about how challenging it is going to be and get a handle on the pandemic. the first step to beating this pandemic is understanding the gravity, the severity of the situation. he's

lawyer being written by every living secretary of defense can be seen perhaps in this column from david ignatius, he reported senior officials are worried potential domestic and foreign turmoil could give president trump the chance to cling to power. government officials fear if violence spreads, he could mobilize the military and use military capabilities to rerun the election in swing states as suggested by michael flynn. it sounds insane, but something that people are very concerned about. do you think, this is part, abby, why mattis, esper, cheney, et cetera, wrote the letter? >> i think we absolutely cannot rule it out. just the fact that all these former officials decided to do this is not by chance. they would not do this if they didn't think it was necessary to say out loud. the military doesn't have a role in the process. on top of that, president trump has been a big fan of the insurrection act in the past, urged by former officials repeatedly over the last several years to use the insurrection act for all kinds of frankly ridiculous reasons to exert federal control over the military f

and joining me now is david ignatius and peter baker. both msnbc political analysts. have you both here. as we look at the big news from yesterday, there are at least 12 senators on board reportedly up to 140 house members. there is speculation that rand paul may join that group as well. so david, what is your reaction to this? >> well, i think that this is a last ditch effort to challenge an election that trump lost at the polls, lost in court, and now there is an attempt to challenge it both in the count that takes place formally in the joints session of congress on january 6 and more worryingly in the streets. social media are full of appeals to trump supporters to come to washington on the 6th, arrive at 7:00 in the morning, come to the elipse, gather by the thousands. where that leads is impossible to say. but i know that people in law enforcement and our military are deeply worried as they watch the thousands converge on washington with every possibility that this could get out of hand and become a dangerous situation. >> absolutely. so peter, how about you, wha

for example, the day after christmas, the deeply sourced "washington post" columnist david ignatius reported that senior government officials, people in the trump administration, are worried that any violence at the pro trump demonstrations planned for washington on wednesday, any violence at those events might be used by trump as a pretext to mobilize the military, which he would then use, somehow, to keep himself in power. ignatius reported on those concerns the day after christmas. now, maybe we don't think it's very likely that president trump is going to use the u.s. military to try to stay in office for a second term, to try to usurp power. if you're like me, maybe you can't even in the most wildly imaginative part of your brain, you can't figure out how such a cockamamy scheme could even actually work in practice. what would that mean, right? but if president trump did try it, if he did try something like that, it would be so catastrophic to our standing as a democracy that even a slight chance that it might happen, that he might try to do that is probably worth a considerable amount

there was a desire to -- our colleague david ignatius has written about this, a desire to avoid that display of force that was so shocking during the black lives matter protest. and i think that was a mistake as well. so there's lots of different explanations. on the impeachment, i think the house should go forward. i think it should do its constitutional duty, even if the senate doesn't take it up. that will be another blot, actually unprecedented blot on president trump's historical record, the first line of his obituary. >> so that puts you in line with me, but also with professor tribe who was just on. charles, your take. what do you -- do you think that impeachment should be pursued even if nothing happens in the senate? >> absolutely. i wrote a column about it over a year ago that we said we should impeach him over and over and over and over again. it doesn't matter to me that the senate won't take it up or they won't vote to convict. it's a scarlet letter unto itself as ruth mentioned. it goes down. we've never, in the history of the country, actually removed a president, even

david ignatius with the critical of the police action on capitol hill wednesday. what went wrong with protection of the u.s. capitol? as we look for who to blame in this catastrophe, let's focus on the real culprits. president trump who incited the rioters. he urged them to where the capital. 13 republican senators and 138 house members who challenged joe biden's victory and act on these self-appointed patriots who trashed the people's house. trump should face legal action for for formatting this right. the members who risk the lives of their colleagues by encouraging the fanatics should be censured. the insurgency ransacked the capitol should be arrested and prosecuted. bruce on the independent line. monro, north carolina. caller: good morning. how are you today? i've been listening to your show for over one hour. one caller actually made sense. richard from illinois. most of your collars are calling in with talking points and they don't have any idea what they are talking about. this is the problem with our country today. it starts with the notion that we are de

some other news out there, from david ignatius at the washington post with national security connectionsbreaking the story that president-elect joe biden plans to nominate william burns, former career diplomat, respected at home and abroad, to run cia. personnellast major decision. thatghlights the quality characterizes biden's foreign policy team. is an inside player, brainy, reserved, collegial. though a diplomat, burns is a classic gray man, like those who populate the intelligence world. the title of his memoir, the back channel, refers in part to his role as a covert intermediary in the initial contacts with iran that led to the 2015 nuclear agreement. mark in new hampshire, you are next. caller: good morning. just so divisive, it is ridiculous. the last caller asking why maxine waters was not censored or asked to step down? what a deep state of nonsense we brought ourselves into. five years, nancy pelosi has rallied against donald trump. why? why does she hate the man so much? because he wants to take the country back for the rest of us? this is totally ridiculous. host: what shoul

david ignatius with the critical of the police action on capitol hill wednesday.hat went wrong with protection of the u.s. capitol? as we look for who to blame in this catastrophe, let's focus on the real culprits. president trump who incited the rioters. he urged them to where the capital. 13 republican senators and 138 house members who challenged joe biden's victory and act on these self-appointed patriots who trashed the people's house. trump should face legal action for for formatting this right. the members who risk the lives of their colleagues by encouraging the fanatics should be censured. the insurgency ransacked the capitol should be arrested and prosecuted. bruce on the independent line. monro, north carolina. caller: good morning. how are you today? i've been listening to your show for over one hour. one caller actually made sense. richard from illinois. most of your collars are calling in with talking points and they don't have any idea what they are talking about. this is the problem with our country today. it starts with the notion that we are demo

david ignatius, we are obviously having a turning of a page -- the page right now in the trump administration really haven't had time to talk about over the past several months. joe biden through all of this chaos, of course, there have been many things that have been detrimental to a smooth start for the biden administration. but one thing that biden has had is cover, because the media has been chasing one story after another about donald trump, as we have from the start and joe biden has not gotten the close look that most president-elects have gotten. we remember bill clinton started his administration in the rockiest of ways. this is something biden and his team are going to be noticing over the past -- the coming weeks. they are suddenly going to feel the hot glare of those klieg lights that are being turned from donald trump now and going to be focusing squarely on them. >> joe, you're right. biden was lucky in a sense with all of the commotion going on around donald trump that he was able to work hard to put together a cabinet that generally has gotten very high marks. he was able to p