editor for "the washington post," david ignatius. former chief of staff at the cia and department of defense, jeremy bash. he is an nbc news national security analyst. thank you, all, for being with us. >> david ignatius, we've all been wondering how this happened. we have all been wondering how the israeli government was caught asleep so badly. especially as your newspaper is reporting, that they've been practicing for weeks in plain sight of israeli soldiers, of basically committing these heinous acts. now, as richard engel reports, the concert, the massacre at the concert, over four hours long. we've heard from israelis locked in their homes for hour after hour, wondering where the army was. in all your reporting, david, have you been able to unpack over the past couple days how this could have been such a massive security failure and military failure by an israeli government that has long been considered one of the best, one of the strongest, one of the swiftest? >> most secure. >> one of the most secure. >> joe, the only thing i

let's bring in david ignatius. david, i was struck by, well, what we've known, and what we've known since these first reports came out. but you put it so well, where you talked about -- let me just read a bit of this. the gaza operation poses two agonizing challenges which will tragically seem to be in conflict. first, israel must restore deterrence against its enemies in gaza, west bank, lebanon, and iran after saturday's devastating attack. at the same time, it must minimize civilian casualties and save as many hostages as it possibly can. it seems like an impossible mission. david, it really does, it's an impossible mission. as soon as the reports came out, the israelis knew, hamas knew, many of the victims of the war would be the palestinian people because hamas leadership uses them as human shields. they have since 2005. >> joe, i have the feeling that israel has decided that it must put the security of the state above the security of any individual, including the hostages it hopes to protect. the security of t

david ignatius, let's bring you in. there has been a lot of diplomatic efforts undertaken by the united states especially to slow down -- well, first of all, to stop any fighting north, but also to slow down the ground invasion. if you look at the opinion of people that help shape american foreign policy in washington, d.c., and i'll start with you, your column last week very wisely said, they should begin this war by thinking about what follows it, what follows the day after. i'll read you what tom friedman wrote this weekend at "the new york times." said, israel is about to make a terrible mistake. quote, i believe if israel rushes adlong into gaza now to destroy hamas, and does so without expressing a clear commitment to seek a two-state solution with the palestinian authority and end jewish settlements in the west bank, it'll be making a grave mistake that will be devastating for israeli interests and american interests. it could trigger a global conflagration and expose the pro-american alliance structure that the

correspondent peter baker, amna nawaz, a co-anchor of "pbs newshour," "washington post" columnist, david ignatiusielle pletka of the american enterprise institute. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." ♪♪ ♪ >> from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history. this is "meet the press" with kristen welker. >>> good sunday morning. the u.s. is stepping up its military readiness across the mid east, citing escalations by iran and its proxy forces as the u.s. and israel prepare for a widening war. american israeli hostages judith and natalie raanan spoke to president biden on saturday after being released by hamas. they were abducted in the terror attack two weeks ago in southern israel. >> hi, judith. >> hello, mr. president. >> i am so glad you're home. not home, i'm glad you're out. >> thank you so very, very much. >> hey, natalie, how are you? god love you. >> i appreciate your support for israel. >> according to the israeli military, 212 hostages are still being held captive, at least 30 of them under the aim of 16. the first 20 trucks carrying aid moved through the

well, you and david ignatius have lot in common. apparently, that was i thought that that was i thought that was a huge moment which you don't get anyone is more media is the washington post columnist who basically wrote the thing he's a morning joe contributor you don't more inside the beltway establishment david ignatius and he said joe biden needs to step down so i and then you at that same note and it like that's people are coming out of the so to speak of saying yeah he shouldn't be running. yeah. and you know, so the established media gets a sense they're about to lose and they don't like that at they don't want trump to be president either. the only person more dislike being president, of course, is bernie. but but that's not the issue here. right. so they're like, yeah, they don't want trump let's keep it real. they don't want them right? but but then if you say a name right, if it's a progressive name like, no, get out of the race, you son of a --. you're against authority. how dare you be against power, your head. so, in f

we're now going to bring in david ignatius from "the washington post," and our friend, richard haass,er president of the council on foreign relations, to dive into this. david, i'll start with you. i know the burning question in your mind is, how could this have happened? israel has a premier intelligence operation. the forces are charged with preventing something like this from ever occurring. what is your sense as to how they got caught so badly off guard saturday morning? >> john, i'm just struck, as i think we all are, by the scope and horror of this, listening to the spokesman say every family has been touched. last night, his counterpart. another spokesman said this is the worst day in israeli history. how could that have happened? what went wrong? what was the failure of intelligence and, as i wrote in a column last night, was it a failure of gathering the right information? i think of understanding the information, people likened this terrible event to 9/11 in the united states, the 2001 attacks by al qaeda. americans never imagined that al qaeda could seize airplanes and use

helping the small stand tall. >>> the associate editor for "the washington post," david ignatius. have dealt with this terrorists state and allowed them to kidnap and hold hostage and kill americans. is the biden administration going to be forced to respond to this -- to these attacks on u.s. servicemen? >> joe, first, i have been watching and seeing close hand this war now for the 40 years. i was in the american embassy in 1983 when was bombed by what we now know was an iranian-backed group. it continues to this day, the attacks described on the u.s. forces in syria and iraq are part of a continuing effort by iran to drive the united states from the region. the u.s. very much wants to avoid a direct conflict with iran now. it feels israel has its hands full with hamas and does not want to see a wider war. there are some indications the iranians would want to fight through proxies and don't want direct conflict either, but these attacks will draw a response. when you have 20 people injured at a base in the desert sand between iraq and lebanon in the syrian desert, you will have am

several months you are seeing democrats acknowledge when you see you know bill maher, maureen dowd david ignatius media encouraging joe biden to step aside i think the plan in place i don't know if gavin newsom but kelly going to be hard, to actually get kamala to say i don't want this they have to make it her idea because not going to fly to have gavin newsom, in california replace what could be first, woman president or black woman, running. liz: that is right. >> that would be a have heard one to sell to american public, that being said has been making rounds, i commend him coming on fox news, sharing what he might do that being said, we have, a gallon in places in los angeles for gas something during the debate hannity questioned him on, i just don't see even if newsom were to come to the table you see such a juxtaposition between what happened in florida with governor ron desantis during a covid and you see what happened in california it is really, really hard to bush him as nominee if going up against desantis or trump you. >> personal savings rate pce 3.9% highest credit card debt we've ha

we'll give the first question to david ignatius from washington. david?ip, would you describe the balance of the biden administration policies? we've heard strong support for israel. president biden's powerful embrace of israel after the tragedy of october 7. since then, we've heard increasingly calls for humanitarian pause, the civilian assistance. the second part of the question is, what we're talking with saudi arabia about, is there a chance they could be, in the future, part of a new way of governing gaza after hamas' military power is defeated? >> thanks for the questions. the bipartisan delegation went to the region to meet with the crown prince in saudi arabia, bin salman, and president sisi in egypt, to press them, what could it look like on the other side? is there a path toward peace? is there any future plans for how gaza after hamas would be governed and organized? how to support with humanitarian relief the 2 million gazans who are trapped in gaza, and how to work together to try to secure the release of hostages. we met the senior israeli l

more heinous actions, more war crimes from vladimir putin, which, richard haass, leads to the david ignatiusnians seem to understand that they can't continue fighting this war forever. at the same time, they are in no mood to give up to a guy who would massacre 50 civilians at a cafe, sitting there remembering somebody else who just passed. it is a difficult situation, but you read between the lines, and david ignatius seems to suggest to us that they are now trying to figure out what the end game looks like. >> ukraine has all sorts of problems. one, we don't want to see it destroyed in order to save it. the defense of ukraine, for them, is not an abstraction. it is a painful, costly, daily reality. they've got a real problem. there is a gap between their articulated goals and their means to bring them about. increasingly, you see the reality. david reports on it. funny sort of way, joe, there is a more honest conversation about ukraine in ukraine than there is here. here, it is almost cancel culture if you suggest any of this. but they're not going to get back militarily all of the territo

as david ignatius writes in the washington post today, -- counterattacking through a maze of tall buildings hidden garrisons and booby trap passenger ways. -- -- for the ghastly attack, what defenses did they prepare? hamas fighters don't wear uniforms, they hide and high-rises alongside civilians, and now hostages. and hamas may have been planning for this stage of the attack for quite some time. on top of all of that, after shattering israel's sense of security, hamas is declaring that it has one. and that it may very well continue to declare victory no matter what comes to pass. from the new york times today, it remains unclear whether the high cost to civilians will blow -- even when hamas attacks first, gazans ten to -- every war, no matter how many palestinians die, hamas will come after it and say, we are victorious. joining me now is my friend, ali velshi, msnbc's chief correspondent reporting live from tel aviv and israel. it is great to see you, i trust that you are safe and well. i know we have a delay, so let me get right to it. just a staggering, deeply distressing scarring in

as david ignatius writes in the washington post today, israeli forces will be counterattacking through a maze of tall buildings, laced with hidden garrisons and booby trapped passenger ways. a former official told the post, hamas most of anticipated that israel would attack gazan revenge for the ghastly attack, what defenses did they prepare? hamas fighters don't wear uniforms, they hide and high-rises alongside civilians, and no hostages. and hamas may have been planning for this stage of the attack for quite some time. on top of all of that, after shattering israel's sense of security, hamas is declaring that it has one. and that it may very well continue to declare victory no matter what comes to pass. from the new york times today, it remains unclear whether the high cost to civilians will blow back on hamas. even when hamas attacks first, thousands tend to blame israel for their misery. and many have been through so many wars that fatalism prevails. a researcher from gaza tells at times today, every war, no matter how many palestinians die, hamas will come after it and say, we are

do it in such a way, david ignatius has also said this, where peace with the saudis is possible, peace with palestinians who want to turn their back on terrorism also possible. so given what you wrote this weekend, where we are today, how do you think things are moving forward? >> it's interesting, joe. things have slowed down a little bit. what we're seeing is that the hostages -- by the way, the hostages were not somehow a sideshow for hamas. hostages were an integral part of their strategy. what we're seeing is the slow release of them. hamas is trying to buy time. that's one situation. obviously, israel is loathe to go in while hostages are being released in decent health. the united states is worried about american hostages. that slows things down. there's all the negotiations, as you said, about aid. but i think what quietly is happening, as u.s. defense officials are spending a lot of time with their israeli counterparts, they're saying, "do you understand how hard this is?" there's two phases, and you've been talking about it here, the military phase of urban, close-hand combat

upset and less inclined to fully support the is, is real a come what may another uh, call them by david ignatius and in the washington post. a very well respected opinion column column. this saying that the middle east is at what he called a cuban missile crisis type of moment, right now with extreme risks for whitening the war, a very dangerous, dangerous period of time, a dangerous moment in, in the history of the middle east. all right, well we'll leave it there for that and thanks very much the for that update of the sun. it's what shows in the us. well, is there any prominence to nothing? you all haven't addressed the nation on saturday, saying the warden to masses into the new stage. unofficial reports now from occupied east jerusalem. despite going calls, we'll see spar israel has entered a new phase of the war. and guys of the prime minister is not using the word invasion. the troops are on the ground. the bombardment of the strip is for rushes and continuous, idaho rock because a lot to do, we're going to fight on land in the air and sea cliff and we will win. it will be victory of the

at the same time, he said what, you know, the three markers he laid down, reminded me of what david ignatiusrael needs to fight this war thinking about the day after. that's exactly what joe biden said. he said, don't repeat our mistakes. limit casualties. know that we're all moving toward a two-state solution. talk about how artfully that speech was crafted last night. so much so, fox news contributors are saying it was a great speech. >> yeah. i think he really did an amazing job last night. he was in command. he was strong. he took the moral high ground. he took the ground that americans should be most comfortable with. that is, we do have a stake around the world in democracies, in standing up to thugs and bad guys and torturers, and, you know, violent extremists. so here's the thing, he said out loud, two-state solution. that has not -- those words have not come out of bibi netanyahu's mouth in a long time. i think that's the other thing he did in this speech. he signalled very strongly to those in power in israel that we are not retreating from the goal of achieving peaceful co-existen

host: you might be interested in david ignatius' column in the washington post. into a nightmare of urban warfare, saying israel must answer saturday's terrible attack. the country's existence was shaken and the aftermath might bring a happier future for palestinians who are one of modern history's most faded people. but a colleague warned me decades ago when it comes to the middle east it is an unfortunate truth that pessimism pays. this is rich in ohio, republican. you are next. caller: really important issues coming up and the solutions are out there. one is look at oil independence for the united states. it is more than being number one. we like giving up our oil independence. russia is making billions of dollars. around is getting billions of dollars -- i ran is getting billions of dollars. other countries are working on bombs with the extra oil money. we have got to be crazy. on the border we have laws to not come into our country within our laws. look what happened to israel. they have the double wall and everybody got through it. we have wide-open walls a

fight as long as necessary, after talking with local residents, writes washington post columnist david ignatiusnsive and the colossal losses in the ssu. for the russian regime, for vladimir putin, this is a signal that perhaps in the long term they will actually win, so i think this is a key point that russia will try to increase attacks in ukraine in the near future. if ukraine loses and putin wins, i think you will definitely increase, if not double, your defense budget in the coming years, and you increase the likelihood of a great power war in the next 10-15 years, i think it will be a very dangerous situation if putin is allowed to do this, zelsky, who has legally prohibited himself from negotiating with official moscow, in the event of a decrease in the volume of military assistance from western countries, the decree will have to be canceled, as the british tv channel skynews writes, if congress does not approve new arms supplies in the near future, kiev will forced to compromise, violates the american principle of nothing about ukraine without... trump, according to him, will not even ha

but david ignatius really puts it into words quite well. ce out this morning in "the washington post" entitled, "a war that must be waged with an eye toward what comes after." david writes in part, prime minister benjamin netanyahu must be wise to wage war in a way that allows for stable peace after his adversary's defeat. if he waits until the conflict is over to think about the day after, it might be too late. and if he conducts a war that punishes palestinian civilians rather than hamas, he might lose global support and undermine his mission. netanyahu has one wild card that, if he plays it well, could reorder the middle east. that is the growing willingness of saudi arabia, the dominant arab power, to form an open partnership with israel, so long as israel seeks a stable and lasting peace with the palestinians. >> katty kay, there's so much that is important in david's op-ed in "the washington post" this morning. you can speak especially to the view from europe and what you've seen through the years, and how important it is that netanyah