. >>> joining us now, david ignatius. have been reporting intensively on this, not just recently but you were just there in israel with military officials. you were in gaza. you talked to people there. let's talk about how fragile this is. it doesn't deal with the day after, the future of who is going to run gaza and how they are going to coexist with israel and the u.s. and israel very far apart on that. >> this would be a blessed event, just listening to the hostage family testimony about the one little girl, you realize how meaningful this would be for the families. in no way does it resolve the basic issues in this gaza war, which is going to continue. i would briefly summarize for your viewers the history of the hostage release deal. two days before the ground invasion started on october 27, the basic elements of this deal were already in place. the ground invasion changed that. hamas pulled back. when i was in doha, about two weeks ago, to meet with the qatari prime minister, again, the basic elements of this deal,

"the washington post"'s david ignatius, we thank you very much, as always, for your insights this morning. >> thank you, david. i'll tell you, mika, just looking this weekend at the papers, we're going tolater, bu york times" editorial lays out the way forward with the israel-palestinian peace process. there are people that are saying there is no peace process moving forward after these attacks. well, there has to be. we really don't -- we as americans don't have a choice if we're going to continue to be invested as much as we are in israel and in that region. and israel doesn't have a choice, as so many israelis understand. there has to be a way forward. it's hard to see right now, but "the new york times" editorial page, i don't always say that about "the new york times" editorial page, but it lays things out very well. i must say also, in this age of tiktok, where you just have idiot takes on middle east peace because somebody has seen it on tiktok or instagram, in the reels for 15 seconds, "the new york times" magazine this weekend lays out the history of the peace process, the failed

plus, washington post columnist david ignatius traveled with the idf alongside other journalists into gaza. he's back from that closely served -- to bear witness to what he saw with his own eyes. and the book manners or coming up to the librarians now. we'll talk about why that's so dangerous, in a special addition of the velshi banned book club. another hour of velshi begins right now. good morning. saturday, november 18th. i'm ali velshi, we begin this hour with breaking news in the battle over donald trump's eligibility to run for president next year. a colorado road -- appears to be a victory for donald trump. the judge declined to disqualify and remove trump from the 2024 presidential ballots, on the basis that trump engaged in insurrection. the question of trump's eligibility to run for president again was vaulted back into the public discourse in august, when two of the most revered legal lines of our time, harvard's laurence tribe, and the judge david michael luttig declare that the constitution prohibits trump from ever being president again, based on section three of the ame

"washington post," david ignatius. co-host of showtime's "the circus," nbc news national affairs analyst, john heilemann. and rogers chair in the american presidency at vanderbilt university, historian jon meacham joins us. >> great lineup. >> my gosh, hello. good morning. >> there's a bit of a meltdown yesterday in democratic circles all over the place. >> very worried. >> my phone melting down. >> exploding. i was telling people, be mindful. >> is that what you were saying? >> you have to be mindful. a long way out. you know, president romney was doing extraordinarily well at this point. the last gallup poll going into the race had mitt romney up by 11 points over barack obama. it didn't turn out that way. i think these polls are very important. i think the white house should be scared as hell. if you're running for president or any office, you should always be scared as hell. >> yeah. >> i ran scared 20 points ahead. i ran like i was 20 points behind. but these polls that came out yesterday shows they have areas the

that said, david ignatius, again, no easy choices for israel.s, you wrote about qatar and the unique role that qatar has been playing throughout this entire process. based on your contacts there, based on your contacts in israel and, obviously, inside the white house, where do we go from here? are there more hostages to be released in the next couple days? does qatar believe this temporary cease-fire can be continued? >> joe, in doha, qatar, the capital, on tuesday, cia director bill burns met with the director of the israeli mossad and the qatari prime minister, who has been the principal mediator, and they discussed a process by which all of the remaining hostages, including the israeli military men and women, might be released. i was told that there was agreement in principle on doing that. the problem is that the details are extremely difficult and the price that each freed israeli would commend in terms of palestinian prisoners to be released, who those people would be, all those things have yet to be worked out. israel has a dilemma. they

assistant editor for "the washington post," david ignatius. president emeritus on the council of foreign relations, richard haass. >> also a giants fan. >> absolutely. >> you know, richard, the giants can't even, like, lose right. now is the time for them to start losing to get draft picks, and what do they do? they win. you see guys on the field, and they're celebrating. i'm going, what are you celebrating about? also, new york football, it's crazy, the jets, they figure out with two minutes left in the fourth quarter, three quarters of the way through the season, that their quarterback may not be good. >> that's the giants, yes. a time for every purpose under heaven. yesterday was a time to lose and, unfortunately, they didn't read ecclesiastes. >> exactly. >> there you go. >> we have the host of the podcast "on brand with donny deutsch." donny deutsch is with us, as well. >>> we'll start with the top story. defense forces have released new video of what they say is a, quote, fortified terror tunnel under gaza's main hospital. troopingss beg

larry: david ignatius, respected columnist in "the washington post," predicting immediate announcementlike the next day or two, from a variety of sources, there will be a five-day cease-fire around some kind of a hamas-israel,-palestinian hostage swap. not all of the hostages. maybe 70 plus, women, children and a five-day cease-fire. are you hearing much about that? >> well, this is a deal being brokered with the participation of the united states through the qatari government which brokered a couple of the others who damage releases. it would be an extended pause, if you will. i don't think you want to call it a cease-fire, because a cease-fire connotes something different but it would be an extended pause to perhaps to allow women and children to be released from hamas custody, back into the hands of israel. the big question, larry, is, if you give hamas a five-daybreak, what does it have an opportunity to do in those five days? israel may have gaza city surrounded, it may have the al shifa hospital surrounded by the way an interesting development in that. the united states, john kir

david ignatius, and white house bureau of "politico," jonathan lemire. an extraordinarily happy day for israel and the children of israel. let me ask you as a military commander, what are your concerns? >> number one, the re-supply, which hamas will take enormous advantage of. they'll bring in ammunition, command and control devices. they'll bring in fuel. all of that is simply unavoidable. number two, it gives a psychological boost to hamas. in other words, they will say in their council of war, look, our plan is working. we gathered up these israeli civilians, and now we will parcel them out like chips at a casino to get what we want back, which is a break in combat operations. and then thirdly, hamas will use this period of time to move their fighters around through these tunnels, so i'm absolutely thrilled to see this deal go through as a human being. as a military officer, you have to recognize the downside, and i know that the israeli military high command is going to grapple with that. they'll do everything they can to neutralize these factors. th

david ignatius, let me ask you about president biden's involvement in this. integral has he been in these negotiations? >> so i think president biden and brett mcgirk, the director for the middle east have been crucial in encouraging the parties to keep pushing in the contacts. bill burr's the director, and respected on all sides. he's been a sort of source of detailed information, but just -- just pushing the process forward. every time there's been a hangup, president biden's gotten on the phone with either the prime minister of qatar or the amir of qatar or sometimes with prime minister netanyahu to stress america's interest in this process going forward. i think the thing to note about president biden's role is that the pause in fighting has been central to u.s. interest in this hostage deal going forward. we want the hostages out, but we also want to see the pause as a way to have responding to international concern about the fighting in gaza. so president biden deserves significant credit. i think in the end what made this negotiation possible was that

i'm joined also by "washington post" foreign affairs columnist and msnbc contributor, david ignatius.th. mr. ambassador, if the truce's extension holds, perhaps, gets extended further, does it become harder for israel to reengage on the ground, and harder for the u.s. to support a renewed offensive. >> exponentially harder, chris. if you'll recall in our previous conversation on our show, we both alluded to the key date being the fifth day of the four-day cease fire. well, that's tomorrow, and it's already extended by two days, and there are increasing signs from israel, from qatar, from the egyptians, and, indeed, from the u.s. that there could be other deals which entail other cease fires. actually, the president in nantucket on friday said i could see dozens more being released in the next few days. that suggests more deals and more cease fires. now, the way it would affect israel is not necessarily in stopping any further operation, but in changing the parameters, or changing the dynamics or the scope and the scale, it will be much less of a wide scale offensive. you know, notwith

well, you and david ignatius have lot in common. apparently, that was i thought that that was i thought that was a huge moment which you don't get anyone is more media is the washington post columnist who basically wrote the thing he's a morning joe contributor you don't more inside the beltway establishment david ignatius and he said joe biden needs to step down so i and then you at that same note and it like that's people are coming out of the so to speak of saying yeah he shouldn't be running. yeah. and you know, so the established media gets a sense they're about to lose and they don't like that at they don't want trump to be president either. the only person more dislike being president, of course, is bernie. but but that's not the issue here. right. so they're like, yeah, they don't want trump let's keep it real. they don't want them right? but but then if you say a name right, if it's a progressive name like, no, get out of the race, you son of a --. you're against authority. how dare you be against power, your head. so, in f

we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> let's bring in david ignatius. e post and was recently in gaza city. david, i want to start by reading from your new piece entitled "a silent desperation on the slow march out of gaza city," where you discuss witnessing civilians using a humanitarian corridor to flee gaza. you write in part, t was dead quiet as the line stopped and started. the only sound was occasional shell fire in the distance. every 50 feet or so you could see someone with a white flag. people trudged forward with sacks containing whatever they uld carry from their homes. this war has produced deeply horrifying images. israel children assaulted in barbaric waysy hamas terrorists, palestinian children left to die under israeli bombardment. it's a war in which we've all looked into the abyss. this conflict has raised excruciaing issues i c't begin to resolve. here's what it looked like on the groundn sunday. israeli soldiers said they were trying to protect refugees fleeing. observer could only hope the line was moving toward safety, rather than m

and therein lies, david ignatius, of course, the problem for israel, how do you root out hamas? how do you destroy a terrorist organization that has no problems burning your babies alive and raping your children and gunning down kids that are at concerts when they use literally use gazan's as human shields, use hospitals as shields where they can, you know, conduct operations under ground, where this is again how they fight. israeli dies, that's good news for hamas. a palestinian dies, that's good news for hamas. that's how they live. that's how they think. you wrote a column talking about just how horrible the palestinian -- state of palestinians have been for a very long time and how hamas, starting in 2005, was able to hijack palestinian's yearning to be free. >> joe, i tried to describe how this yearning that palestinians have -- and it's been true for many decades. i was going back into the early '80s in this column, the yearning they had for dignity and self respect has really in recent years been hijacked by hamas and turned to purposes we see have horrific consequences.

not successful in thehe people are trying to do this and is only couple of us in the country, david ignatius at the "washington post." >> you and david have a lot in common apparently. i thought that was a huge moment when you don't anyone with more media in washington post on this aa basically wrote the thing, he's a "morning joe" contributor. you don't get more inside the beltway establishment and david ignatius and he said joe biden needs to step down. it feels like people come out of the closet so to speak at saint yeah, he shouldn't be running. >> yeah. so the established media gets the sense that about to lose and they don't like that to be at all. they don't want trump to be president either. the only -- that the issue. they don't want trump. let's keep it real.t they don't want him, right? but then if you say a name, right, especially if it's progressive name, no, get out of the race. you are against authority. how dare you be against authority? bow your head. i had a meeting this morning and is talking to somebody great guy really smart guy and he said name someone and i newspeople

and david ignatius' reporting. what is your understanding of the negotiations?el aviv on this five-day march to jerusalem. and when they get there, they say they're going demand answers from the israeli government, because they are experiencing whiplash. they see these occasional optimistic comments from overseas. they see these media reports that suggest the deal might be close at hand, and then they wake up every morning, and their loved ones are still in gaza, and there is no information. and they are in agony. it's not too strong a word. so they are going to jerusalem, and they want to hear from prime minister netanyahu. they want to hear from the israeli government what is going on. and of course, the tension here is exactly what president biden mentions, which is that these are negotiations of the utmost delicacy. they're fragile. they can fall apart if they're exposed to the light. and so the families of the hostages are just being asked again and again and again, trust us. they don't seem to have a lot of trust. they seem very frustrated with their own g

concerted effort in the democratic party to get joe biden to step you aside and i think all the david ignatiusthe washington post writing a scathing op-ed about his age and various other -- david axlerod calling for him to step aside and this is the front page of the new york times, highlighting -- which the new york times would never do, this dreadful poll, unless they wanted to send a very clear message. the message is to joe biden, please for god's sake step aside. you are not going to win in 2024. maria: yeah. i mean, look, you're right. when you start seeing the media get on board in terms of asking him to step aside, you know what that the democrat leadership is directing that. >> that's right. maria: the media now turning on the president, saying he might not be the right candidate for the democrats. here's a clip over the weekend. watch. >> i mean, in all candor, truth serum, this those be like a political five alarm fire in the white house. >> i hope it is an alarm for the campaign. >> this will probably lead to a lot of p democrats increasing chatter that joe biden should step aside

and i am quoting from david ignatius reporting in the washington post. though the captains have often been described as being under in tire hamas control, and israeli official told me that of a total of about 100 israeli women and children, including toddlers and babies, hamas had immediate access to only the 50 who will be released. ben, in your eyes, how complicated and how problematic is it if the reality is that hamas only actually knows about and is in control of a fraction of these approximately 250 hostages that are inside gaza? >> yeah, alex, it's tough to think about all the complexity that goes into. this first, of all the negotiations were taking place through qatar, the qatari government. which has hosted hamas political offices in doha. those political leaders then are in touch with hamas leaders on the ground in gaza. and you have a situation where these hostages were taken in a chaotic and awful violent circumstance, where there are other groups operating in addition to hamas, palestinian islamic jihad, apparently took some of these hostag

if i mean, david axlerod, you've got david ignatius, van jones, you know, ohs are saying -- others aregain. ax a elrod is saying it's overreacting to say he told him to crop out, but he tweeted there's legitimate concern. i mean, multiple polls. what do you think? >> i just think it's interesting that you've got joy behar and hillary clinton. i guess that they are election deniers, aren't they? because they still haven't given up thinking hillary won in 2016. hillary, hate to break it to you, honey, and i don't want to bust all the balloons you had stored in brooklyn, but, by golly, you lost. trump won. and, you know, it's amazing, none of these people get thrown off social media because they questioned the election results of hillary clinton or anyone else in the democrat side. but i just think people are going to the look at these numbers, and they're going to have to say trump is winning in demographic cans that republicans normally don't even compete in, much less win. elizabeth: yeah, it's something. governor huckabee, thank you so much. it's good to see you. >> thanks. elizabeth:

it is not just david axelrod. ignatius wrote a piece in the post.establishment of david ignatius writing about how biden should step down or step away from the election. everything is going trump's way. it looks like trump versus biden. i think trump is more likely the republican nominee. it is a close toss up just like the previous two times. >> i like the way you quickly said centrist. i don't mean centrist. another word. >> i was looking for establishment. >> i just watched you do that. i was thinking the same thing. i don't know about that. who would be, mick, if it is not president biden and it probably will be president biden, but if not president biden, whom? >> you can go down the list of names of candidates and hear michelle obama's name. she has no interest in running. oprah winfrey's name. she has no interest in running. gavin newsom or gretchen w whitmer. this would not be a primary. this would be the democrats selecting after the convention which makes it more weird and disturbing. that's the 21st century american politics. >> donna, mi

. >> ambassador brzezinski, this is david ignatius and washington.d tusk defeated the ruling right wing group of parties. can you tell us about the significance of that for poland and, more broadly, for europe? this seemed like a big deal. >> sure. more broadly, significant for america. what happened on october 15th was a democratic mobilization of the people to express their voice through their vote. it was the highest turnout, in terms of voters, in modern polish history. donald tusk, a former president of the european council, one. his coalition won. the strategic opportunity that you point to, dave, it is clear. a creation of a new government, poland could renew its ties with the european union, with germany, and even with ukraine in one single act. ties between poland and those countries have become prickly recently. it is a real strategic opportunity, also, for america. you know david, we have thousands of american soldiers in poland today. collective security is working. one of the weak links was the relationship between poland and the europea

i've got to give david ignatius, richard hawes and others credit, because they said on october 8th andwhat's happening the day after and how we get to peace. right now doesn't look like that's happening. >> yeah. the biden administration and the president himself have been trying to walk this pretty difficult tight rope of wanting to support israel, tell them they have a right and a duty to defend themselves. i think they've become uncomfortable with the way in which they're doing that. so we know from lots of reporting, u.s. officials did not want them to do a full-scale ground invasion because they thought that would be escalatory and was not going to achieve the goal of trying to eradicate hamas and would make it extraordinarily difficult, if not impossible, to have some kind of peace or two-state solution. afterwards, the president is facing more pressure from the progressive wing of his party to do something about the suffering in gaza. so they're trying to walk this tight rope of saying israel has a right to defend itself. this was the scale of the hamas attack. of course they ha