still with us, david jolly, karine jean-pierre, joyce vance, clint watts. karine, i'm looking at you. because this has to do with democratic politics. do you care to make any predictions about the finishing order in iowa and will it matter a whit to the larger race? >> you know, it's really hard to tell who's going to win. it really is. >> i'm glad you said that because that's how i feel. >> it's a jump ball. you look at the des moines register poll that came out about two weeks ago. it was a jumble. and that is a gold standard historically accurate poll. and it had them all bunched up at four. bunched up. there's another poll coming out from des moines's register on saturday which will have a better sense. but i do think that once that contest happens, once we have real data from voters iowa will set the tone on what happens in the rest of the primary. and it is just -- it is really an unknown. i think the question is is this going to be like 2004 where it was kerry which was more of the establishment, that's who iowa caucusgoers went with, or is it going

david jolly and the table are back.his lev parnas thing feels like the flashing yellow light in the as yet unknown sort of last connective dots in the impeachment question. >> and it's been building and it's something giuliani and we all have been watching. and i'm sure giuliani is feeling not super happy about. but the one thing that lev could provide is more information. americans on both sides of the aisle. democrats and republicans, significant majorities of these folks want new witnesses and they want more evidence and documents and information so they can make a more informed decision. if there's nothing to hide, then turn over the documents. >> you know, i don't buy this idea that everything with impeachment is a foregone conclusion. and i think the fact that 71% of americans, that includes 64% of republicans, want to hear from witnesses. means that lev parnas opening up his phone. i mean, imagine opening up your phone to congress. >> tom brady didn't want to open his phone. so you know he doesn't want to do this

back with us, former republican congressman david jolly. would imagine would appeal to democrats and republicans, right? because they're weary of these wars that we've been in. >> sure. >> that don't seem to achieve something. we're not sending people into harm's way, and if we are engaging in military activity, which we are very, very capable of in america, we will not do so without strategy, and yet it appears we have in one act put americans in harm's way and not articulated a plan for victory. >> yeah, and that was scripted donald trump, and we know, you know, see what donald trump does, not what he says because at the end of the day what we've seen is a president that has injected greater instability into the region. and, look, ali, i'm of the camp that you do have to look at this episode going backwards about six months and see almost the baiting from iran with the number of incidents where they confronted u.s. national interests. but then the stark escalation when donald trump made the determination to take out soleimani and the legit

msnbc political contributor and former republican congressman david jolly. and tom nichols, opinion columnist at "usa today." thank you for being here. an all-republican panel. i want to go to david first because what steve has said is we do not live in a world where republicans can be dictated to by this president, that they are not in fact dictated to by him. you were a member of congress. you were a republican member of congress, or a republican at the time. does that ring true to you, that they're not being dictated to by donald trump? >> no. we've seen it for the past three years. case in point would be thom tillis saying he wasn't going to approve the reprogramming of the wall, and donald trump saying, well, then i'm going to go to north carolina and beat you in a smash mouth way. so he had to change his position. and, look, you could give credit to the president for his electoral success in that. but we know that the president has not said, vote your conscience, republican senators. he has said, do what you need to do to acquit me. that's my expectatio

david jolly, former congressman from florida who has since left the republican party and is an m msnbc contributor. and bill nelson is a former democrat who is also from florida. david, let me first get your thoughts on ken starr, alan dershowitz what do you make of the decision? what does this legal team tell you anything about the president's legal strategy? >> it tells me, and this is very interesting, it tells me the white house is ready to argue the law, not just the facts. what i mean by that is in the house you had deputies of the president that largely took his narrative that it was a perfect call, that donald trump did nothing wrong, that everything he did was great and grand and the house had all their facts wrong. but the appointment of this team suggests that the president needs lawyers to argue the law. and what i mean by that is alan dershowitz, for instance, has indicated that he does not believe that obstruction of congress and abuse of power are actually high crimes and misdemeanors under the impeachment clause. it may be that ken starr has to argue that the house's ca

. >> david jolly joins us now, a former republican congressman from florida. david, good to see you. i want to just bring up something cynthia oxny was mentioning today, some missteps on the part of the president's defense. at one point pat scipollone -- let's listen to what pat cipollone said and what adam schiff said back to him. i'm sorry, i'm just talking to my control room. do i have that available to me? i'm sorry, we're going to leave that up for a second. i'm going to ask you the question, david much pat cipollone made the comment about republicans not being allowed into that scif. he's mistaken. every republican on the committee was allowed. let's listen in for a second. >> 47 the resolution is agreed to. the majority leader is recognized. >> i ask unanimous consent that the trial adjourn until 1:00 p.m. wednesday january 22nd and that this order also constitute the adjournment of the senate. >> without objection so ordered. the senate is adjourned. >> and there you have it. no roll call vote for that one. that is i think the 13th vote of the -- or the

and with me is former republican congressman david jolly. thanks for joining us, tom.. >> how does he approach these decisions? >> very deliberately, very thoughtfully, very studied and close to his vest. >> if mitch mcconnell was seeking outside pressure, some of which we've already seen, ads for the club for growth, statements by sean hannity, about the heresy of anyone cutting against him, is that the type of thing in your view that would affect senator lamar alexander's thinking on an issue like that? >> no. waste of time and money. >> you are more concise than a lot of us around here, which i appreciate. when people look at the senate process, i mentioned some of the other senators you've worked for, what is the thing that people sometimes might not know or understand from the outside that you know from working directly with these people. for example, we hear a lot of impugning of motives, a lot of ideas how it works. what in your experience really drives these decisions? >> i think most people and certainly most senators despite perceptions and mischaracterizatio

suzanne is a strategist and political analyst and david jolly of florida, he has left the gop, and he is an msnbc political analyst and from washington, matt miller, former spokes person for eric holder and an nbc contributor. thank you for joining us and helping us out to analyze what happened today. matt, i want to start with you, there were a couple of arguments that were made today by allen derschowitz, suggesting that what president did was not impeachable, but was not only not impeachable and not wrong, but in fact would be okay in the course of doing things, as long as they said it was in the country's interest. the fact that he asked a foreign country for help. may have assisted him in an election. we are saying it's okay. >> now, look, it's an argument that puts the president above the law. if you applied the law in the past, richard nixon would not have resigned. he felt it was in his interestand in the interest of his election for him to subsequently cover it up. it sets a dangerous precedent. not just for future presidents but if donald trump is acquitted, what the senate

former congressman david jolly. joel payne, democratic strategist. and jason johnson, politics editor at the root.com and msnbc political contributor. karine jean-pierre, i always go ladies first anyway, but in this case black women are actually the core of the democratic party. >> they are the core. >> it is weird for me watching a democratic debate where black women were not there other than the one moderator. obviously abby phillip was there. but it was strange to watch a party that is just utterly dependent on black and brown voters hold that debate tonight. your thoughts. >> and we started off with the most diverse, the most talented of candidates in the primary, and it was not represented at all on the stage. it's problematic. this is something that the democratic party has to deal with. i don't think there's blame to go in one place. i think there's blame to go around as to why we don't have julian castro on the stage, why we don't have kamala harris, why we don't have cory booker. that is incredibly problematic especially before we could even

and david jolly. thank you. thank you for joining us this morning. stay with us in a few hours morning joe will be talking live with joe biden. and we'll have complete coverage of the day two of the impeachment trial. the coverage continues right after this. robinhood believes now is the time to do money. without the commission fees and account minimums. so, you can start investing wherever you are - even on the bus. download now and get your first stock on us. robinhood. it's kind of my quiet, alone time.n. audible is a routine for me. it's like a fun night school for adults. i could easily be seduced into locking myself into a place where i do nothing but listen to books. i never was interested in historical fiction before, but i'm obsessed with it now. there are a lot of like, classic and big titles that i feel like i missed out since i don't have time to read, mean i might as well listen. if i want to catch up on the news or history or learn what's going on in the world, i can download a book and listen to it. because i listened to her story over

david jolly joining us from tampa. again, there is a set of grievances that iran has since the iran nuclear deal. that it wants addressed and pressure placed on them economic pressure that by a will the of accounts is working. it is putting brought iran to a situation where they had to respond. the problem is there's no out let for iran to respond as it relates to a new deal. because america decided to pull out and hasn't provided any substitute. >> usually we use the different tools whether it's economic sanctions or strikes to bring a country to the table and create a situation for diplomacy. to succeed. the idea all wars end in a peace deal chl the idea the united states pulled out of the iran deal and continued to exert maximum pressure on the population granted it seems to be working because they have been protesting against the government after a gas price hike recently. but there's no out let. is the suffering the point? what is the end game here. if they are feeling they need to have conversations with the unit

with me now, david jolly and desiree barnes. and david, we've seen some vulnerable senators try to appear moderate and open minded about the trial and others are just hugging the president as tightly as they can. i wonder how you see those strategies playing out in places like maine or arizona or north carolina. >> i think for susan collins and cory gardner, if you are in cycle facing a tough election, possibly a loss, the opportunity to lean in asking for witnesses and then inevitably-evidently acquit the president is not too hot, not too cold, just right. it doesn't lump you in with those who acquit at all costs. and i think challenge is that nil wants this over by state of the union and if he and lindsey graham can pull off this trial without witnesses, it saves them 48 48 or 72 hours in getting the president what emdeclare as an exoneration before the joint session. >> and three republican senators to give the opportunity to appear moderate but can't lose four. what do you make of thom tillis and martha mcsally leaning hard o

and david jolly. thank you. thank you for joining us this morning.tay with us in a few hours morning joe will be talking live with joe biden. democratic psht presidential candidate. and we'll have complete coverage of the day two of the impeachment trial. the coverage continues right after this. >>> you are watching continuing coverage of the impeachment trial of donald trump. first full day of the impeachment trial has come to an end after 13 hours. in the last vote senate approved the trial rules as amended earlier. history will remember today the partisan battle lines were drawn giving us clues as to how the trial will play out. supreme court chief justice presiding over the trial announced each eleven times every single republican senator voted to table or put off every democratnd

and david jolly. thank you. thank you for joining us this morning.y with us in a few hours morning joe will be talking live with joe biden. and we'll have complete coverage of the day two of the impeachment trial. the coverage continues right after this. ♪ >>> it was a marathon day on capitol hill, as democratic prosecutors clashed with white house lawyers during the impeachment trial of the president. for nearly 13 hours it was a fight over the rules that will govern the proceedings. >>> and just as things were wrapping before 2:00 a.m., chief justice roberts warned both sides to keep the tone civil after arguments became heated. >> everyone knows nothing good happens after midnight. you got to shut it down. >> especially in the senate.

. >> joining our conversation, former republican congressman, now an independent, david jolly, joinss. let me come to you because i think that the idea that lev parnas's credibility is on the line and the narrow question of barr is a false hood we could easily knock down with donald trump's own words. as transkriebcribed in the call released. it's donald trump who brings barr in the criminal scheme. trump who says to zelensky, talk to barr. it's donald trump who throws his attorney general under the bus. and lev seems to have maybe pressed the gas a little bit with his recusal today. >> and barr is the administrator of the department that is investigating lev parnas. it is right for parnas's attorney to say you have a conflict and you can't officiate this. more importantly i think what parnas is doing, what we saw in the interview with rachel is he is saying to the southern district of new york, i will serve up these individuals to you. i will give you rudy giuliani. i will give you a mike pompeo, donald trump. and you can't reasonably expect the u.s. department attorney general to b

angeles times" and from the white house bureau chief at the "washington post," phil rutger and david jollywe've got the whole team gathered today. the president has put some of his top aids, top cabinet secretaries in tough positions. i got into it with mike pompeo trying to back up some of what the president said before on friday. then over the weekend esper effectively tried to back up what some of the comments had been. he was put in a position where you could lie, i guess or break with the president. >> that's right. we've seen over the past week the machinery of government, the top officials in the military and national security space for this country have been scrambling to adapt to change their story too, evolve too, match what the president has been saying publicly. his narrative of why he decided to order the drone strike that killed a top iranian general has been evolving day after day after day and now you have an administration with a credibility problem in part because of the president's long history of false hoods and misstatements and because the president has been imprecise

bring in chris lieu, white house cabinet secretary under president obama, and david jolly, no longer affiliated with the party. fortunately affiliated with nbc. reality check. we have sound bites from guys like mitt romney. you speak to republicans every day off line. >> right. >> have things shifted in the last month? >> the way they shifted, and credit is due to speaker pelosi, real credit due to speaker pelosi, she took heat for withholding articles. we would not be having a conversation about the fairness of the trial if pelosi hadn't created a month where that was the topic. you've seen senators have to shift, senators like romney have to say yes, i want to hear from bolton. and what happened is mcconnell lost that iron grip of his caucus around this. >> but did he? we're having a conversation about fairness of the trial, but at the end of the day if the guy who sets the rules is mitch mcconnell, isn't he laughing his way all the way to the bank saying i don't feel anything? >> it is the rule of 51. he has to have 51 votes to say no witnesses. >> he doesn't have the numbers? >>

chuck rosenberg, joyce vance, david jolly, and maya wiley. let's go to geoff bennett.xt of this resolution that the senate body will vote on now is now out and it tracks with our reporting and what you just said. so we expect that after they do vote and adopt this resolution there will be a debate on four amendments. we are not sure how long that debate will last. we are told it won't last that long. then nothing is scheduled to happen this weekend. so those three senators, those three democratic senators running for president can go back to iowa and campaign. that's senator sanders, klobuchar, warren. monday at 11:00 a.m. eastern time closing arguments will convene. the house manage ergs wirs willt followed by the president's defense team. we expect that will be somewhere between four to six hours split evenly among them. tuesday you will see the public deliberations. the senators themselves standing on the floor of the senate. each senator getting 10 to 15 minutes to state his or her case where he or she stands on this issue of removing president trump from office. w

self-interest, and it doesn't look to me, and i could be wrong, this is more in the political lane, and david jollyt it seems to me they're going to vote no wittose ins and we'll get the merit garland treatment and it will be over. >> let me ask you about that, david. here's what joanie ernst said. >> within two hours i thought that the white house counsel and their team entirely shredded the case that has been presented by the house managers. so we heard today was very concise. it was full of truths and facts, as presented from the house managers' own witnesses. >> is two hours enough to change someone's mind on witnesses and the decision to acquit or convict? >> no. and senator joni ernst is either engaging in a coverup or unqualified to be a united states senator. because what the president's defense team did was try to present what seemed to be legal arguments, but they were insufficient and misleading. they called logical fallacies, statements rooted in truth but are a misdirection or incomplete. they laid out, the lead counsel, laid out six core statements at the beginning. each one of them w

here with me now to talk about these confession, cheryl gates stolberg, and david jolly, a former republicanbutor. cheryl, what was it like in that room today? >> it was very grave. i think you could really feel the weight of the moment. there's been a lot of partisan bickering back and forth in the capitol in the months and weeks leading up to this day, but when chief justice john robert strode into that chamber, i think senators on both sides of the aisle really felt the moment and they felt history looking upon them, and in fact, they said so afterwards, senator chuck schumer said that he could hear on both sides of the aisle a gulp when roberts took the presiding officer's chair, and john cornyn, the republican of texas, said afterward that senators really felt the gravity of the situation that was upon them. >> you know, david, there's a sort of duel roles, right, u.s. senators are political creatures as i was saying senator blumenthal, necessarily they are, that's how you become a senator and stay a senator. they're also now essentially impartial jurors but there's always been a tensio

phil rucker, white house bureau chief for "the washington post," former congressman from florida david jolly adviser from the obama administration. mr. rut gger, the president picd the most extreme option but took time to get there. was this decision more of a process than we normally see from the president? >> it is a little unclear, steph. we understand from what the president has said and reporting coming out of the administration they reviewed intelligence, that they waited until they had the general in a sort of target of opportunity, so to speak, then the president made that order to launch the attack. they wanted to make sure there were not allied iraqis in the motorcade with the general as he left the airport in baghdad. what we don't have clear visibility into is what exactly the intelligence was about soleimani, what attacks he had been contemplating against american bases or american people or other american targets, and the president has indicated, including last night with reporters aboard air force one, he may consider revealing more information about the intelligence, but we d

my thanks to david jolly, alexia, jason, most of all to you for watching. "mtp daily" with the fabulous katy tur in for chuck starts now. >>> welcome to friday. it is "meet the press daily." i'm katy tur in new york for chuck todd. and we begin today with the threat of a major military conflict with iran as the u.s. braces for some kind of retaliation after president trump ordered an attack that killed one of iran's most powerful military and political figures. that strike, near the baghdad airport, killed qasem soleimani. the commander of iran's elite quds force and one of the most influential figures in the region. a short time ago, president trump spoke publicly for the first time since that strike, which was carried out less than 24 hours ago. and he said soleimani was plotting attacks that would have killed americans. >> soleimani was plotting imminent and sinister attacks on american diplomats and military personnel. but we caught him in the act and terminated him. under my leadership, america's policy is unambiguous to terrorists who harm or intend t

susan is a republican strategist and msnbc political analyst and david jolly of florida who left the gop and is an msnbc political analyst and from washington, matt miller, a former spokesman from eric holder and msnbc contributor. welcome to all of you. thank you for joining us and helping us out. matt, i want to start with you. there were a couple of arguments that were made today by alan dershowitz and by one of the trump trial attorneys in the house and in the senate. both seeming to suggest that what president trump did was not impeachable. not only wasn't impeachable and wasn't wrong but in fact would have been okay in the course of doing things as long as they said it was in the country's interest. the idea that he has asked a foreign country for help. the idea that there may have been quid pro quo. we have departed from the idea that there was not quid pro quo. we are now saying it is okay. >> it is basically an argument that puts the president above the law. if you applied it in the past richard nixon would not have to resign. richard nixon thought it was in his interest and

david jolly and from the southern district of new york, geoff bennett outside the room where speakeris about to begin. we have much to get to. we begin with geoff. what do we expect to hear in this press conference that really kicks off everything leading to the senate trial? >> right, well, ari, good morning to you. well, look, some four weeks after the house adopted the two articles of impeachment against president trump the house speaker is formally bringing the house portion of the proceedings to a close. by doing two things. naming these house impeachment managers and then ultimately transmitting both articles of impeachment over to the senate. as you mentioned, the house impeachment managers that's the group of house lawmakers who will present and then prosecute the case against president trump on the senate floor. as i know you know back in the '90s during the '99 impeachment trial house republicans who were in control at the time they picked 13 members of the house judiciary committee. all of them at the time happened to be white men to prosecute the case against then preside

to help us unpack all of it, former democratic senator from missouri claire mccaskill, david jolly, a former civil prosecutor and former managing editor of "time" magazine. in watching the house floor, you'll notice we have jerry nadler, who was just named the house impeachment manager. let's listen in. >> the clerk will report the resolution. >> house resolution, 798, resolved that mr. schiff, mr. nadler, ms. lofgren, ms. garcia of texas are appointed managers to conduct the impeachment trial against donald j. trump, president of the united states. that a message be sent to the senate to inform the senate of these appointments and that the managers so appointed may in connection with the preparation and the conduct of the trial exhibit the articles of impeachment to the senate and take all other actions necessary which may include the following, one, employing legal, clerical and other assistance and incurring expenses as may be necessary to be paid from amounts available to the committee on the judiciary under applicable expense resolutions or from the applicable accounts of the hou

. >> i'm joined by ted deutch, democrat from florida, david jolly as well, left the republican party. to join the ta four republicans to join the 47 democratic senators to get these witnesses before the senate trial. what are the chances? >> well, i don't understand why the senate republicans are so opposed to getting to the truth. so many of these direct witnesses didn't appear because the president banned them, barred them from doing it, said you can't come. >> right. >> that's why the second count is obstruction of congress. the only reason not to call these witnesses and to hear from them is because you're afraid of what you can say. that's the only conclusion we can draw here. >> do you think you can shame the republicans, at least four of them, in joining democratic senators so we have these witnesses? what the congressman just said is true. shame doesn't seem to matter. republic republicans said i don't care what you're saying. i'm sticking with the president. that's their answer on everything. it's not about values. it's about my loyalty to the president. i am a lemming. i wil

former congressman david jolly. charlie savage.n, jill wine-banks, and heidi pryzbyla. we await the president's impeachment defense. keep it here for msnbc's special coverage, an all-star line up all day here on msnbc as arguments from the president's defense team start in just moments. we'll be right back. we'll be right back. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ even after you clean, odors are still trapped in your fabrics. febreze fabric eliminates those odors. and try febreze unstopables with twice the fresh-scent power. tackle tough odors with irresistible freshness. la la la la la ♪ oh, oh, (announcer)®! ♪ once-weekly ozempic® is helping many people with type 2 diabetes like james lower their blood sugar. a majority of adults who took ozempic® reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. here's your a1c. oh! my a1c is under 7! (announcer) and you may lose weight. adults who took ozempic® lost on average up to 12 pounds.

i want to speak to ceo of americans for progress and david jolly and msnbc political contributor. we should know while congressman jolly served as a republican he's no long area member of the gop. thank you very much. are democrats at a point of diminished returns when it comes to holding onto articles? >> i think the real question is what information is coming out. what was surprising during the break, holiday break, is that we did get a series of new facts that came out that demonstrated one of the reasons why you would want witnesses. i think that's one of the questions in front of us, which is what else is coming up. it is interesting we've seen increasing poll numbers for witnesses as we have gone through the last several weeks. >> what is interesting to me as we are literally having the conversation house chair adam smith who made a lot schiff who made a lot of news just tweeted. he said i misspoke this morning. this is a walkback. i do believe we should do everything we can to force the senate to have a fair trial. if the speaker believes holding onto the articles for longe

. >> david jolly, building on this question, how you win matters.mbers of the trump campaign in the mueller probe were indicted. i pointed that out in fairness to them. that was good news but that wasn't enough. you had the president then claiming all of these other things that were false about the report, aided by mr. barr. i wonder here how you think the republicans if they are as they are heading to acquit the president how many join lamar alexander. >> very few. >> i saw the presentation that lamar saw, but i'm going to pretend, denial, nothing happened. >> right. this is the importance of what alexander said in saying that his -- in his quote that the case has already been proven, we can't minimize what lamar alexander did. i know a lot of people are disappointed perhaps that he took the final position he did. but what he did is he validated the decision that democrats are about to have to make. because we have taken for granted that democrats would be able to immediately say the house case is proven without witnesses. but that's the point demo

last hour joy was talking with david jolly and rick wilson, both of whom are not republicans anymoreen with many times. o you are a republican. you're still in the party. you're still trying to save the party. there are many republicans in this country who may share some of your views or their views about the destruction that donald trump has wreaked. they can't do anything about it. they can't vote for you. in many parts of this country the party has made it so they can't vote for somebody like you. >> not so many parts. i think six or seven trump had them cancel the primary. he tried that in new hampshire. he tried to get new hampshire to cancel the first in the nation primary. they said are you kidding us? the state party said let's cancel the primary and they were just laughed out of town. the people in new hampshire, i'm happy to say, stood up to donald trump last year and they were the first people to do so. he didn't always succeed. you're right it's part of a pattern. he said i don't want to have primaries, i don't want to have elections. wouldn't it be great if we could go o

attorney, michael steele, former rnc chairman, david jolly, a former republican congressman from floridaleft the republican party. i feel like i'm gong to stamp that on a whole lot of people's -- >> i need some help. >> so i don't know where whether to start with the legal outrages or the political outrages. it is a jump ball. that's been invoked. i do want to show this moment because represented one of the only moments in the whole chamber to break out in laughter. adam schiff talking about just the lunacy and i think lunacy is sort of the word of the day of a doj lawyer arguing down the street that the remedy for the president obstructing congress is -- wait for it -- impeachment. watch. >> let me begin with something in the category of you can't make this stuff up. today while we have been debating whether a president can be impeached for essentially bogus claims of privilege for attempting to use the courts to cover up misconduct, the justice department in resisting house subpoenas is in court today and was asked, well, if the congress can't come to the court to enforce the subpoenas

back with us, jason johnson at the root.com, maya wiley, joyce vance, david jolly former congressman from florida. let's go to the sublime before the absurd. here's the prayer. >> remind our senators that they alone are accountable to you for their conduct. lord, help them to remember that they can't ignore you and get away with it. for we always reap what we sow. >> we always reap what we sow. i think a collective chill went down all of our spines when we heard that this morning. >> if i was sitting next to my grandma this would be a get right come to jesus moment. >> wow. >> making that abundantly clear. we talked about this. you saw john roberts's face tight. this is where you will be judged if you believe in a higher power. it's a moral transcendent sense before what was convenient on their daily lives. >> reap what you sow. what do you think they've sown? >> they have sown unreliable, dangerous and soon to be autocratic president. they have sown a president who will take revenge on his enemies within his own party. one day and one day soon if donald trump is re-elected the same