wikipedia charles koch and david koch. the ones they think of was that part brothers, charles is from wichita, kan. from where koch industries based and david lives in new york, the wealthiest residents in manhattan. there are two others koch brothers, people don't talk about the. bill koch and fred koch. you hear about them in my book, but mostly you don't hear about them much in the headlines. >> host: why not? >> guest: they are not as political as charles and david allegiance some ways they are losers in a huge family struggles that took place over the years, an epic dynastic struggles for who was going to control but family company, koch industries, a huge privately owned company that the koches have jumped 4 years is the biggest company no one ever heard of. company that almost every american probably comes into contact with. you don't know you do probably, but if you by dixie cups, staying after carpets, vanity fair napkins, georgia pacific lumber, so many of others, you are a consumer of koch industries, the epic fi

>> guest: charles koch and david koch are the ones that people think of the koch brothers. 11 wichita, kansas where coke industries is based. david lives in new york. he is the wealthiest in manhattan. they are actually two other koch brothers that people don't talk about too much. there is bill koch and fred koch. you talk about -- hear about them than about the mostly don't much in the headlines. >> host: why not? >> guest: they are not as political and in some ways they are losers and a huge family struggle but to this over the years. and at that kind of struggle and the family for who is going to control the family company. a huge privately owned company that the koch brothers had joked about it the biggest company no one has ever heard of. it is a company that almost every american comes into contact with. you don't know you do, but if you buy dixie cups, lake ray, "vanity fair" napkins, georgia-pacific lumber, so many other products. you are a consumer koch industries and there is this epic fight a month is for boys for who is going to have control of this company that the fathe

david koch anaconda ring a bell. i remembered while i had read a story about them putting money into the tea party somewhere and i thought i wonder if new yorkers through sophisticated manhattanites who are the people who go to lincoln center have any idea who david koch really is. i thought it was worth taking a peek. that's kind of, so was crossing that street i think going around the corner that got me going on this. one thing led to another and that's how five years went down the drain. [laughter] >> i'm not going to let you wiggle out of the question either. thank you for the kind words. if they are the standard oil of our times and i still very much believe that, that would make you a guitar bell. >> one of my heroes. >> you doggedly investigated the subject unlike any other journalist and it was inevitable that we would discuss this. i didn't know at what point we would would bring it up but while we are at it not only did you devote all these years and obviously upset them and it's reported i think you mentio

so, david koch ran for vice president of the united states on the libertarian ticket against ronald reaganfrom the right because the koch brothers thought that he was too liberal and would sell out and they had much more radical views and they didn't win obviously in 1980 even though david coke spent millions of his own dollars to trick you get elected they got about 1% of the vote and after that, they stopped trying to run for office. that would have been the way to win america over its cause to keep running and try to convince the public that they didn't do that. after that, there is a description in the history of libertarianism where charles cook basically says he thinks politicians are actors and he's not interested in them becoming an actor. what they want to do is write the script so they decided from that point on that they are going to find the whole machinery of american politics and political thinking to try to change the script in america from behind the scenes using philanthropic groups to fund think tanks to fund university professors, to fund grassroots groups and people goi

the political and economic underpinnings of the conservative movement with a focus on charles and david koch. or other titles include strange justice in which examines the sexual harassment allegations against justice clarence thomas during his confirmation hearings. and landslide which looks at internal dissension within the reagan administration during the last four years of his presidency. in 2008 jane mayer appeared on booktv's "after words" program to discuss her book the dark side. >> start at the very beginning right after 9/11, the lawyers pretty much laid the foundation for a program of coercive interrogation. they did so first, the first thing that happened is that president can actually the bushes from vice president cheney, decide to get rid of the geneva conventions are the rules and uphold the standards have to treat prisoners of war. when they get rid of the rules, the rules of war and to also declare that the detainees are not criminals, which gets rid of the criminal code, they are basically putting detainees in a legal limbo with the make up the rules as they go along. >> j

koch support for arts organization. >> guest: a lot of people in new york feels that way because david koch has put a lot of money into lincoln center and the museum of modern art. i can't say i am against giving money to the arts. i come from a family of artists and i come from a family that gave a lot of money to the metropolitan museum itself. these are things i regard as the good side on the ledger here. i think it is great koch gives money to scientific research. on cancer. giving money to cancer research is good. causing people cancer is not so good and they don't talk about that side of what their business does. in the arts it is stepping back, a real shame the culture world has to wait for handouts in order to be able to provide culture. in europe they don't fund it that way. it is not reliant on rich people giving out handouts. the government funds a lot of the arts in europe and they have fantastic museums that don't seem to be struggling. there are other ways to do it this. i can see why the conflict. >> host: next call, connecticut. >> caller: my question to you is we the people

that's a position that the libertarian party took in 19809 when david kochs ran for vice president.today it is being mainstreamed by the republican candidate.ved it has moved far, the the center of gravity from the republican side of politics has been so far to the right during the period that i have been coveringf politics that people forget about it. it is not really that long of a time, part of the reason is because a verys determined, very smart and very rich donors. >> host: does the john birchoh society still exist? >> guest: i think some form of it has been reincarnated.. it is not a major factor. i suppose what is more important is a lot of it's ideas seem to be coming up again. >> host: every month when we have an author on we ask about their influences, about the books they are reading, et cetera. we asked jane that informationd to and this is what she said. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> host: jane mayor, charlotte's web? >> guest: one of my favorite books of all time i discovered also what i read it to my own daughter it is beautifully written. the author

the political and economic underpinnings of the conservative movement with a focus on charles and david koch. or other titles include strange justice in which examines the sexual harassment allegations against justice clarence thomas during his confirmation hearings. and landslide which looks at internal dissension within the reagan administration during the last four years of his presidency. in 2008 she appeared on booktv is afterwards program to discuss her book the dark side spirit if you start at the beginning after 9/11, the lawyers pretty much laid the foundation for a program of coercive interrogation. and they did so first, the first thing that happens is the president coming to truly bush to vice president cheney decide to get rid of the geneva conventions which are the rules and to uphold the standards for how to treat prisoners of war. when they get rid of the rules, the rules of war, they also declared that the detainees are not criminals which gets rid of the criminal code, they are basically detainees in a legal limbo with the make up the rules as they go along. >> jane mayer l

did a highly regarded story about the tea party movement and the extent to which the koch brothers, charles and davidtheir fundraising and spending helped fuel that movement. there has been a lot of back and forth between her and the koch brothers. i think that her stories -- pushingally ended up charles koch to talk more about his politics and his motivation. you have seen him discuss it a lot more publicly in recent years. i did an interview with him last april and another late last year in which he says, i am all about -- my to defend by positions as a libertarian. i'm a free market person, i believe in limited government and that's why i engage in politics. it is a very interesting -- host: and at the same time, releasing his own book. guest: he did one before, so this is a follow-up. this is about his management philosophy and how he runs his company. he thinks the way he runs his company can help -- everyone lives better lives. host: we will go to harry in pittsburgh. republican, good morning. caller: good morning. i was going to bring up the koch brothers as well. every time they bring up koch

koch, right? >> this is not one of the two brothers that run the company. >> charles and david, almost the most politicallye, this is bill who loves sailing, he's a famous wine collect or, lives in palm beach, runs his own company, now starts a school. as a matter of fact he built his own village near denver, colorado, which is why he's selling this place. if you have your own town, you don't need a compound. >> where is the town? >> i think it's boulder? it's got a general store, everything, it's like an old western town. >> by the way, i'm -- >> it's the biggest in aspen. it's the biggest in aspen. >> i told viewers to stick around, and -- >> all of us could easily fit in that. >> there was another -- more than $100 million house in aspen, wasn't there? >> prince bandar's place. that ended up selling for about $47 million even though it was for sale for 100. >> and what's good about this is you can just buy the main house for 60. so before you had to buy it for 100, so you can see. >> now you're saving $40 mill n million. >> what is the billionaire vinegar scandal? >> this is when he bought a thomas jeff