warden, david mccue. >> hello, dave. >> hi, toby, how are you? would meet you here again. >> i know. >> toby wanted to apologize in person, so she asked the now former warden if you would need to her, certainly distance because of the pandemic at the place where it all happened. he said yes. >> i want to tell you, you know, that honor is something that is very respected and earned and not given lightly, and i know how much trust you put into me and i betrayed that. and i am so, so sorry about that. >> i appreciate hearing it. and this moment is kind of what brings a little additional humility to put it behind. >> yes. >> it is worth it. i wonder about the other people , because forgiveness is also about contrition. and i hope that in some way it can be made up to them to some degree as well. >> yeah. yeah, i would like that. >> looking back, you blame john manard for this? >> i don't blame john manard, because if i blame john manard for this , then that would make me a victim, and i am not a victim. >> toby decided to see john manard one last tim