geri delarosa with sunburst projects and david ooko. met through camp sunburst, through children with aids. >> that's right. >> how -- i saw the difference in those kids. what did you see as one who ran those program here in the bay area for so long? >> well, i know that when we first began, and you probably know this, too, cheryl, that stigma was really a huge issue, and because of that, there was a lack of community support around children and women and families in particular. and so the camp, what it did was it created a safe place where people could actually be with each other and know they were going through the same situation and feel a sense of support and not be so fearful. oftentimes, in those years, people couldn't tell their neighbors, even, that they were infected, and what we see in kenya is the very same situation today, which is 30 years later. >> so it's just like it's done here, but it started anew over there. >> right, well, i think it's always been there, but now that there's medications in kenya, there's more of an e