david pecker continued it was an encrypted app by michael cohn. there's no way to trace or paper trail and the conversation is destroyed after the call to which pecker says he told cohn i still to this day don't know if that's true or not. this hits at the heart of the prosecution's effort to not only provide corroborating evidence to michael cohen's expected testimony, but also those who were in the room with donald trump or on the other line of the phone with donald trump explicitly about the plan that led to that reimbursement of michael cohn for the stormy daniels payment. that this was a barter scheme and that's today when david pecker's testimony started to do. around the trump tower door man story and the mcdougle story. we could anticipate the daniels case. >> back on the stand thursday. thank you. let's talk about the big meeting that donald trump has planned tonight. dasha burns is following that story for us. trump is scheduled to meet with the former prime minister of japan. he is still a key member of the ruling party. so what's in it

david pecker and as well here we go. bove asked pecker if it's true that at the time of the non-prosecution agreement, ami was in talks with another publisher to sell some of its tablets. so a non-prosecution agreement is a deal between prosecutors & a witness that basically says we're going to give you a pass. we are not going to prosecute you and you are going to testify truthfully what this is really important because they're trying to get it motive for ride. >> david pecker signed that because they're bringing up that at this time as. you can see here, ami was in talks with another publisher to sell some of its tablets. and in order for that deal to go through these investigations had to be resolved. so they are basically trying to get at the only reason david pecker entered into this agreement was because he wanted to be able to financially benefited forgive me. pecker confirmed that the deal included a provision that the investigation's had to be resolved before the deal could be finalized, as you think, this is rea

but david pecker new a lot of stories about him. pecker said no one really laughed in that room, but trump did smirk at that comment. listen, he has been on the stand for a total of five hours from a tuesday rather into today. and as you heard from le he's gotten into those two major stories, but not quite yet into the store be daniel story, which is at the heart of this case. and so certainly we do expect that to happen when it gets picked back up after lunch all right. >> beringia and grass. thank you very much. of course. brin will be there. kara scannell, phil mattingly here with me. so kara, when she says a five-hour so far for david pecker and i know you anticipate another few hours, maybe that does not actually finish until tomorrow morning the yeah. >> i mean, it sounds that way, prosecutor joshua steinglass said around noon that he thought he had two to three hours more. so that was one hour we got now we have the lunch break. so if this goes for another two hours, that takes us pretty close to the end of the court de maybe

david pecker went into a non-prosecution agreement with the government. ecker to cooperate with the government. as you know, he has an immunity deal for his testimony here today. we are talking about in the sense of, it's a good thing for you if there's not a prosecution of your company in exchange for your cooperation. that means, your company can be sold at a higher value. pecker is disputing that, saying he does want this to be resolved. it seems like they are pointing out, pecker is a businessman and it was a business arrangement with the government, may have been a business arrangement, not just a love friendship with donald trump, but it was a business arrangement as well. one thing i should point out, just before lunch, the defense said they have an hour left of questioning for pecker. then we go into redirect. >> rehema, thank you very much. trump said last night he would testify in his own defense if necessary. before he said he would absolutely testify. would him testifying, you think, help him in this case? >> it's interesting. i'm going to take

defense team is now cross-examining the prosecution's first witness, former tabloid executive if david pecker, this is pecker's third day on the stand and today for the very first time, he described the deal that he helped broker with adult film star and director stormy daniels, a deal that is at the center of this case, the fusion has used packer to set the scene for the jury, introducing them to keep players in the case. how they all fit together in the story right now, the defense tactic in its early questioning is part of a strategy two, strategy to argue the david pecker is work helping trump during the 2016 election was nothing new who? nothing unusual. also notably today, judge juan merchan so far still has declined to issue a ruling from tuesday's hearing on whether trump has violated his gag order, despite the prosecution arguing that this morning that trump continues to violate this order against disparaging members of the jury and the witton this is of course this is four times over the last three days, the prosecution says, let's discuss what our panel and let me start with you, d

former "national enquirer" ceo david pecker is still on the stand and he's being cross examined by donald trump's team. pecker today was asked at length and in detail about the catch and kill scheme that he hatched in a meeting with the ex-president and michael cohen, trump's former fixer. pecker detailed how he purchased the story of trump's alleged affair with former playbook model karen mcdougal for $150,000. and then this happened. the lawyer for the prosecution, his name joshua steinglass asked pecker, quote, was your principle purpose to suppress her story not to influence the election? pecker yes, it was. steinglass, then asked, were you aware that expenditures made by corporations for the purpose of influencing an election are unlawful? yes, pecker responded. then steinglass, the prosecutor, asked pecker why he bought mcdougal's story. pecker said, we purchased the story so it wouldn't be published by any other organization. we didn't want the story to embarrass mr. trump or embarrass or hurt the campaign. all of this laying the groundwork for what happened later in 2016 when peck

david pecker says yes. ver say he was concerned about melania or how ivanka might feel. pecker says no, he invited me to the inauguration and he was going to get a cell phone number. that never transpired. pecker says he did not go to the inauguration and he asked his wife, and she said she didn't want to go either, so they didn't go. this is pecker saying this was -- part of the defense argument has been this is about protecting melania. he didn't want to embarrass me -- melania. and pecker said it was more about the campaign. >> it's on two levels. legally it's important. to have the campaign finance why it's a felony, this is so called john edwards defense, i did this for my family, not the campaign. the principal with the agreement with the other principal, david becker, donald trump. to have him say this was about the campaign, not his personal family goes directly to the legal theory. on the emotional side, just imagine you're a juror, you're in court, donald trump is sitting there, somebody who he's f

now, trump's team attempting to poke holes in david pecker's testimony. pecker is the former publisher of the "national enquirer" who has testified that he was involved in efforts to catch and kill stories that could have hurt trump during the 2016 campaign. nbc's vaughn hillyard is outside the courthouse. also with us, john sale, watergate assistant prosecutor and former federal prosecutor, and jessica roth, also a former federal prosecutor. thank you all for joining us. vaughn, what's happening so far there this morning? >> reporter: right, yesterday on the stand during the cross examination, it was only able to last about one hour before ultimately court ended, and that's where this morning the cross examination from donald trump's defense attorney emil bove continues of david pecker. the focus so far this morning has been on two specific parts, number one, the extent to which hope hicks was involved in that august of 2015 meeting, asked about whether hope hicks was an active participant or spoke during that meeting, david pecker conceded that, no, she

david pecker is a narrator for this case.nd he's laying out the scheme, the multiple times that they killed any bad evidence against donald trump, and that they promoted bad evidence against his opponents. so you have this, you know, like you're building a house and now you have the framework. then you get to michael cohen, and it's already been built up, so he sounds sensible and okay. and then you have the documents. and you can't rebut the documents. donald trump signed those checks. you have the tape recordings. donald trump said, oh, yeah, i know, let's just use cash. no, no, no. so i think the defense really has its work cut out for it. one of the senior people on the watergate case, one said, you know, there are some cases that no one can win. there are some cases where you have to pound the table with the facts because you have the facts. some where you have the law, you emphasize the law, and some where you don't have anything. and even clarence darryl couldn't win the case. so i don't think blanch is clarence daro.

and david pecker says, on the call, well, i didn't see that. and then they tried to pitch the story again, which was a negative story about trump and pecker again says, i didn't see that and they get this sense. move on, right? well and i wanted to editorial meetings of the national shall inquirer where they decided what was on the cover every week and pecker was very active in this. it was all about the cover for all about the cover. >> and they had lists of who sold and who didn't jennifer anniston sold jennifer lopez didn't sell. i don't know why, but that's true. they also had words that sold or didn't sell on the cover tragic last days, always sold. and also, the last days will live. i live in clinton, won one man were elected, but trump's sold. that was the thing that in addition to this, this may come out in cross-examination, that in addition to the fact that that pecker wanted to help trump that during the campaign 2015, 2016, trump was good for the inquire. that's what you're suggesting, abbe, in the sense that it was mutually benefici

i felt like david pecker encapsulates maga world. he keeps drifting and completely dupes his followers, but then they said there and they still pay homage to him. talk about whether or not you think that this trial, even so far, has been moving the needle in any way in terms of public sentiment when it comes to donald trump. >> yeah, it reminds me of a story i was told by a new yorker whose parents worked for donald trump's contractors. he wasn't always good about paying the contractors and i said, did he pay her parents? he said no, and this guy said i had to sue to get their money. i said okay, well, they got $.50 on the dollar back in the guy says you know what? they voted for trump. why if they believe he cheated them on their money? he said because, if you cheat says he will cheat everybody else on behalf of america, cheat the rest of the world on behalf of america. there is an interesting dynamic. it's a view, of him as somebody who is able to manipulate the system to work the system, bypass the system, whatever it is, that see

so, david pecker testified. he consulted with an election attorney, a special attorney who does election law. and then he ran the karen mcdougal agreement by his own company's general counsel, their top lawyer. now, both of those are privileged conversations between attorney and client so david pecker didn't go into details. but, a prosecutor asked him based on that conversation, did you come to the decision you no longer wanted to be reimbursed for the money that ami had laid out to acquire karen mcdougal's lifetime rate ? david pecker responded, "yes, that is correct." "i called michael cohen, i said the agreement, the assignment deal is off. i'm not going forward. it is a bad idea. i want you to rip up the agreement. " in other words, david pecker had a brush with this in the past, campaign finance law and how it is located in a catch and kill scheme for a candidate, thought about them doing the same thing here, had a talk with his lawyer, decided receiving the money for the express purpose of paying off trum

and david pecker is testimony. i think it will come out later on thursday, but the idea that donald trump had to gross up michael cohen in order to make him whole for the payments because he is actually bursting him for what was being classified as payments for legal services, even though there had been no legal services rendered. so that's the given multi here. and i think what the prosecution is trying to show and there's a lot of discussion of donald trump's hands and all of this is that he's very much a micro manager. he is taking really close looks at what the money is, where the money is going to whom it is going and this is just david pecker and michael cohen doing his bidding, but he is the mastermind, essentially the puppet master, and they are simply the puppets jeff, the prosecutor questioning david pecker, noted today in court that the one in the election statutes, the case is based on does have a conspiracy provision. >> what does that say to you about the way that the prosecution is trying to frame we

but they have brought up multiple instances with david pecker in their cross-examination that would leadstion michael cohen and the extent he make exaggerate or take statements out of context. pecker's testimony was that michael cohen asked him to send paparazzi to a meeting he was going to have with mark cuban to essentially make donald trump jealous. a second example was in 2018, when the federal election commission sent a letter to david pecker about the alleged financial scheme, an arrangement they had pertaining to karen mcdougal and other efforts to suppress stories ahead of the 2016 election. david pecker testified just a moment ago when he called michael cohen about this fec letter, that michael cohen said in response, quote, jeff sessions is the attorney general and trump has him in his pocket. in that david pecker is saying, let him to question whether michael cohen was somebody who would exaggerate statements, because he knew that donald trump didn't have jeff sessions in his pocket. all of this is an effort here apparently by the defense team for donald trump in front of the

most of the witnesses in his hush money trial, except for former "national enquirer" publisher david pecker is it because pecker has something on trump that he doesn't want going public? who knows. stay with us. liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. that's great. i know, i've bee telling everyone. baby: liberty. oh! baby: liberty. how many people did you tell? only pay for what you need. jingle: ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ baby: ♪ liberty. ♪ an alternative to pills, voltaren is a clinically proven arthritis pain relief gel, which penetrates deep to target the source of pain with nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory medicine directly at the source. voltaren, the joy of movement. the virus that causes shingles is sleeping... in 99% of people over 50. and it could strike at any time. think you're not at risk? wake up. because shingles could wake up in you. if you're over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention. >>> what have you thought of david pecker's testimony so far? >> he's been very nice. david has been very nice. a nice guy. >> you have t

we begin with that redirect questioning of key witness david pecker, which began just a short time ago. prosecutors jumping straight into rebutting some key threats from the defense. one key, for example, steinglass, is that true, mr. pecker? was that your purpose in locking up the karen mcdougal story, to influence the election? to which pecker replied yes. that came after trump's defense team in cross examination tried painting the picture that what the "national enquirer" did for trump in 2016 was just business. nbc's vaughn hillyard is reporting from outside the courthouse in new york city. also with us, paul butler, former federal prosecutor, georgetown school of law professor and an msnbc legal analyst, and tristan snell former assistant to attorney general for new york who led the trump university investigation. he is also the author of "taking down trump: 12 rules for prosecuting donald trump by someone who did it successfully." so vaughn, catch us up on the big moments so far and how trump has been reacting to what's unfolding. >> reporter: right, chris, the cross examination

and, two, david pecker was always serving david pecker.o with benefiting donald trump's campaign, trump the david pecker was good business as he had always been. that doesn't, to your point,, and the fact that it is still a federal election law violation. more importantly, as david pecker acknowledged in his direct, he knew it at the time. >> let me interject. isn't there a big difference between what david pecker used to do for donald trump for 17 years in terms of reading stories and trying to keep him happy and trying to get them to contribute and all of that stuff and then once trump campaign started in 2015 and 2016, that is when david pecker started paying to shut people up for the first time. persecution said in their opening statement on monday that that was only once trump had his presidential campaign going, that was the first time they ever paid anyone, paid anyone for information about trump. it is qualitatively process at that point. >> i agree with that. and, the payments were abnormal by "the national enquirer" standards. da

the defense tried hard to undermine former national enquirer publisher >> david pecker and upcoming witness, michael cohen. >> trump's attorney, emil bove, a asking if he believed cohen was prone to exaggeration, pecker agreeing that he was the end of it all, the former president had this to say about the trials so far this is eight days that we all sitting in this courthouse. this is all biden-run indictment it's an order to try and win election political opponent nothing like this has ever happened eight days country is going to hell and we sit here day after, day after day, which is their plan well, the foreign president offer no evidence. of course, who any of those claims. there's no evidence that any of what he said is true. and i'm joining us tonight, new york criminal defense attorney arthur aidala, also attorney and former apprentice contestant stacey schneider, cnn political commentator earl lewis cnn legal analyst let's karen friedman, agnifilo and elie honig and cnn's kara scannell, who was in the courtroom today. and we'll be going through the transcript for us throughout the n

we have got more on that coming up. >>> but we start with former national enquirer ceo david pecker back on the stand right now. one of the few men in the room with donald trump when the prosecution says the conspiracy at the heart of this trial was hatched. pecker testifying today about that critical trump tower meeting in which he, trump and michael cohen hashed out a plan to keep potentially damaging stories from becoming public. in pecker's words, it was mutually beneficial, helping to sell papers while simultaneously helping donald trump's campaign. i want to bring in nbc's vaughn hillyard outside the courthouse for us. in the studio, catherine christian, former assistant d.a. at the manhattan district attorney's office and msnbc legal analyst, chuck rosenberg, former u.s. attorney, senior fbi official and msnbc contributor. a lot to get to today. vaughn what is the very latest? >> reporter: david pecker has now testified over the course of the last two hours, essentially corroborating public statements that michael cohen now made for years, that in august of 2015, at a meeting at t

the answer from david pecker, quote, yes. ization. pecker said it was standard to suppress stories to help a friend or to use as leverage with a celebrity, this was catch and kill in order to influence a presidential election. now with court adjourned for the weekend, it's all systems go as we head into next week with key testimony still ahead. this is where we start the hour with some of our most favorite reports and friends. two people inside the courtroom today, investigative reporter susan craig and former u.s. attorney and former deputy assistant attorney general harry litman. lucky for us, andrew is still here as is lockland. sue, we start with you and your wonderful notebook. >> i have to say i think the most interesting part of today was the contination of that agreement that karen mcdougal had. donald trump's lawyers really tried to muddy the water on it. put some poison in the ear that karen mcdougal got something for the money she was paid she got a cover of a magazine and wrote some articles. then it really was pay

he also tried to catch david pecker in some inconsistencies in here his testimony, david pecker has beenh prosecutors, the federal prosecutors and the district attorney's office for several years now. and so they were focusing on remember, the testimony about a january 2017 meeting at trump tower that david pecker walked into all donald trump was finishing up a meeting with some of with the f then cia director james comey and others and during this meeting is when david pecker testified that there was that he had a conversation so what donald trump donald trump thanked him for taking care of the doorman's story in the karen mcdougal story so donald trump's attorneys pressed him on notes from previous interview had given with investigators. and in that interview notes he said, according to the fbi's nodes, that david pecker told them that donald trump did not express any gratitude david pecker dug in on that today saying that the fbi knows were wrong and that his testimony over the past few days is that correct accurate testimony? so a lot of back and forth over different inconsistencies

news gold for david pecker because that was his stock in trade. they were trying to portray that this was just more of that and in the opening statements, donald trump's lawyers actually said that they tried to -- trying to influence -- is democracy. that's what people try and do. what was different about this and what the government lawyers were showing is that during the election, the arrangements that were reach and karen google who is the playmate that donald trump had a relationship with, nine months or a year, these payments that went to karen make google and others were larger than usual. the national enquirer national -- have a limit of $10,000. these went well over that. in the case of karen mcdougal, they had a contract with her and that was according to david pecker solely to keep her story off the market but she did in signing that get other things with the agreement. she got, you know, she would have a column, she would get on the cover of a magazine. david pecker said that was all window dressing for the payment to keep her quiet but

that's what prosecution also needed david pecker to do. to link the catch and kill agreement to the campaign, and that's exactly what he did. so, again, the defense tried to attack pecker's credibility in order to testify. they didn't score big points, and they're not going to be able to go there with hope hicks. she's going to be a strong witness for the prosecution. >> you know, jeremy, before the break, defense spent a lot of time grilling david pecker about a non-prosecution agreement, the jurors learned an awful lot about catch and kill. on one hand, it's pretty straightforward, right? catch and kill is you find out that there's a story that you want to bury, you pay for it, and you make sure they sign an agreement that says nobody else ever gets this story, right, but there's also a lot of weeds to it, what was the nda, but basically on the face of it, do jurors get what's happening here from what you have heard so far? >> i think so, and these nonprosecution agreements, these agreements to testify, they are not atypical. i think ther

all of this sleeves was displayed before them jake, it was a very short court session today. >> david pecker was on the and for just over two hours. and during his testimony, the jurors appear to be paying close attention. you could see when pecker was testifying, he often looked at the jury box when he was answering some of the questions. and you could see the jurors eyes following him back to the prosecutor, who would then ask the follow-up question. a bit like a tennis match for their heads going back and forth. we also saw there was some evidence introduced today, some emails. this agreement, the that was painted trump's the doorman at trump tower that came into evidence and you can see the jurors looking down at the monitors. they all have a monitor that shows what the email is that's being displayed to the courtroom and also to them individually. so we saw a lot of them looking down, paying attention to the exhibits that were being entered into evidence today, but could see some people were pretty engaged, paying attention following the testimony and following the back-and-forth betwee

i mean, maybe he drifts off every once in awhile, but he's looking at this guy, david pecker pecker,knows and god knows, you asked earlier, like what's running through his mind and it's going to take up four weeks of his life it could be occupied running for president. >> can i ask you how much do you think republicans liked the idea of how much emphasis trump is putting on his martyrdom. it's like thereafter me it seems like every every time you see trump publicly, he's complaining about the cases against him. >> is that is that something that's motivating beyond his base? is that's effective for the base. it is rallying cry number one, beyond that, as you start to get to voters who are more concerned about, think of the top ten issues that we could talk about this sort of distracts from that and they don't like that. and to caitlin point, big big term in political campaigns, donor maintenance, donald trump is not able to do that now, whether it's at a lunch here in new york or somewhere at mar-a-lago during the week because he's in a courtroom that's very important. he's he's not g

david pecker will be back.oke for about 30 minutes or so in testimony yesterday after those opening statements. anything that stuck out to you and just how important is he to this case? >> david pecker may in fact be the people's star witness and not michael cohen. david pecker may ultimately be a better witness for a few different reasons. number one, he has some baggage, but he doesn't have the baggage of a michael cohen. number two, he's going to lay the foundation of this pre-existing relationship and this catch and kill arrangement. and that's going to match up to a lot of documents that the state is going to introduce. number three, he was a friend of donald trump's. so his testimony may be more credible for that reason. he may be testifying about something we're not anticipating, and it might be about a direct conversation with donald trump, because, remember, that there were these entries in business records can be shown from the records with the state, with the people need to show is donald trump's inv

prosecution witness david pecker is back on the witness stand. s for donald trump objecting to a line of questioning about steve bannon's involvement with pecker. you know steve bannon, the close -- well, had legal troubles of his own, but he was a close adviser during 2015, 2016, and throughout the trump presidency. back with us now from his post outside the courthouse, nbc's vaughn hillyard. also back with us, andrew weissmann and chuck rosenberg. an update on what's happening in the courtroom now? >> reporter: right, there's currently deliberation over steve bannon's name into this conversation that the defense for donald trump is asserting and objecting to this line of questioning of david pecker. around steve bannon and his relationship with pecker, because pecker is now testified that in october of 2016, that donald trump introduced steve bannon to david pecker. now, of course, in october of 2016 was at the heart -- well, all of the deliberations over the stormy daniels payment were ongoing, but also, the fact that steve bannon was working a

so the last question asked of david pecker for today was, does he believe trump does david pecker believes that donald trump cares about his family, right? there have been a lot of questions about why trump would do these things was to protect his family or as pecker said, was it for the campaign? the last question, does trump care about his family? pecker replies, quote, of course, i do think that cares about his family that surprised you very much so because trump thinks about trump and his family clearly throughout all this is almost been window dressing. >> just so it makes him look like he's a family guy, but his focus is always been what's best for me. that's why he picks the people who works with. and that's why he's been doing what he's doing with the power play. so the family for a politician, obviously it's unnecessary optic to have but his feeling towards them. no, they're just tools for him to advance his own cause. >> that moment surprised you mean bernardo at the end of the testimony of david pecker and i guess it's in a sense, it's hard to put it together and it's probably h

and david pecker. so we'll see if we could see a second witness begin to take the stand even tomorrow afternoon, even better. >> one of the questions one of the first questions they asked for comments was so ami isn't a charity organization, is you're making a profit off of all of this really making him seem like this is about greed and that's all to get the jury thinking that they don't like this person. >> yeah. important point. it was interesting. i thought that kaitlyn that david pecker testified about a call with two top white house staffers at the time who picks and sarah huckabee sanders would that reveal as someone who covered the white house and remembers sarah sanders being at the white house briefing room where obviously all three of us have sat at one point, she had to deny allegations about karen mcdougal citing conversations that she had with donald trump to hear that review still today that there was a call with the national enquirer tabloid king, hope hicks and sarah sanders while they

and the stories david pecker were telling. we're not stories about a likable person. >> how does david pecker come off on the stand to the jury? do you think i mean, what does he is dreaming? >> usually cheerful and chipper through this process, like he laughs sometimes very loudly, which good for him? like he's not the one on trial but it is his longtime friend. you know, they've been friends for decades. he he concedes very cheerfully, again, that trump was very good for his business. >> he committed i needed trump to sell magazines and that's part of why he made this deal with trump during the 2016 campaign. >> i keep obsessing of what must be going through down from his mind, sitting there behind this defense desk watching his former sort of friend, who is a keeper of probably a lot more secrets about him, then he has lead on what must be going through donald trump's mind. i mean, nothing is is when donald trump became president. >> i mean, this was someone who had a lot of dirt on donald trump and knew a lot about him and

and that story is david pecker were telling. we're not stories about a likable person. >> how does david pecker come off on the stand to the jury? do you think i mean, what does he is draining? usually cheerful and chipper through this process. >> like laughs, sometimes very loudly, which good for him, like he's not the one on trial. >> but it is his longtime friend. >> they've been friends for decades. he he concedes very cheerfully, again that trump was very good for his business. >> he he admitted i needed trump to sell magazines. >> and that's part of why he made this deal with trump during the 2016 campaign. >> i keep obsessing of what must be going through down from his mind, sitting there behind this defense desk watching his former sort of friend, who is a keeper of probably a lot more secrets about him then he has lead on what must be going through don trump's mind. i mean, nothing is is when donald trump became president, i mean, this was someone who had a lot of dirt on donald trump and knew a lot about him and had a

the operational aspects of that explicit agreement between trump, his lawyer michael cohen, and david pecker. and what they did to boost trump's campaign. and pecker said he would look out for trump and act as his eyes and ears and described a practice where he could embellish stories that michael cohen sent over to him about trump's competition. the big moment showcasing how this arrangement functioned. in august of 2015, among these three men, pecker described trump and the former fixer asking him what he and his magazines could do to help the trump campaign. pecker said he told them if he heard anything negative, woe notify cohen right away. and then he would be able to have those stories killed. like everything trump did, this part of the plan was not put into writing. pecker referred to them as just an agreement among friends. but a huge moment came toward the end of pecker's time on stand when the alleged affair between trump and karen mcdougal was discussed. it was a moment, according to "the new york times," when trump's body language changed. he started moving his head. squinting an

with more testimony from david pecker. joining us now is joyce vance, former u.s. attorney, mia wylie, former civil attorney in new york, and hugo, covering washington and all things donald trump. joyce, i want to start with you. we've talked often about trying cases. when you have your case in chief, that primacy is how you do this. you start and end strong when it comes to the presentation of your witnesses. was it smart for the prosecution to start with david pecker thus far? >> well, it was smart, katie, and i am reminded that it was you who first said that you thought david pecker would be a great kickoff witness. i think that's the case, right? this is someone who doesn't have the baggage of a michael cohen, and who tells the origin story. he has now walked us through the election interference conspiracy. this is now patch and kill to elect trump. that's the case that the prosecution will put on. they've done a great job of giving the jury sort of the basics, the land marks and the road map that they'll move ahead on

what you heard from david pecker was about that agreement, that donald trump, david pecker, and michael cohen had to unlawfully influence the election. and they talked about and testified about this 2016 meeting where they anticipated that women may come forward and have damaging stories about trump that could hurt the campaign. david pecker testified that he was going to be the eyes and ears of this campaign, and that he was going to alert michael cohen and the campaign about anything that would be damaging so, to make sure those stories didn't see the light of day. however, what is really significant, for the conversations pecker testified, dealing directly with donald trump. both before the election and after the election. before the election, testified about talking to him about the story, trying to kill the story with karen mcdougal. after the election, he testified about conversations where donald trump thanked him for making sure those damaging stories did not see the light of day. the defense tried to act as though this was all business as usual, but that really backfired, becau

trump. >> david pecker is a very strong witness for the prosecution.seems very solid on the stand. he certainly seems like he doesn't have any ax to grind with donald trump and seems almost apologetic for having to tell this story. >> reporter: on the stand, pecker said trump called him about another story he wanted kept quiet. that a former "playboy" model karen mcdougal, who claimed to have had a ten month long affair with trump in 2006, which he denies. >> after we had been intimate, he tried to pin me, and i actually didn't know how to take that. >> reporter: four days before the 2016 election, "the wall street journal" reported that american media, which owned the "enquirer" at the time that had paid mcdougal $150,000 for the rights to her story, which was never published. in the gag order here, the prosecution argued trump should be held in contempt for all of his scathing commentary about this case. trump lawyer todd blanche said his client has been careful with his words. to that, the judge said, that's%

but david pecker walks in and he says that donald trump tells a joke, hey, this is david pecker. he's the chairman of the national enquirer, and he probably knows more than all of you in here. what got the laugh was then pecker said the other gentlemen, other and they didn't find it funny that nobody but trump's, but trump from smiled and the jurors and the court, those are in the court and the courtroom, how to laugh as well. so it was a funny moment. it was really the only time today that donald trump actually reacted to the testimony. i think we've seen throughout pecker's testimony, he really has tried not to react. >> he has been very controlled if he's not allegedly nodding off. >> yes. >> that's what that's what here. but i'll also say what came out today, which was important is not just that this was done allegedly for other people, but that there was a relationship with the enquirer, david pecker is about far back as 1990 h's. we'll call it fixing these stories far before for donald trump was the political icon. so there's, there's a history here. but to be clear, just b

david pecker ends how he started on the witness stand. right now trump's team continues their cross examination. pecker to remind you is the former ceo of american media. his testimony this week mostly focusing on a quote, catch and kill scheme to buy stories about his then friend donald trump without publishing them effectively keeping them hidden. atactic he used for other celebrities, too. separately bragg's team accused former president trump of violating his gag order four more times. that's in addition to the ten claims already made, by the way. prosecutors meantime want the judge to fine trump and hold him in contempt for every one of those. a hearing on the gag order is set for thursday, may two, trump speaking this morning before entering the courtroom. >> we're doing very well in this trial. everybody knows it. yesterday was a big day. yesterday went very well in this courthouse. it should be over. the case is over. you heard what was said and the case should be over. but you will have to make that determination. i think we have

i think the other thing is that david pecker really explained the insides of the scheme. in other words, he explained that why it is that the national enquirer was paying money for the doorman scheme. he was paying money for the karen mcdougal scheme but at some point they said, you we're done being the bank. we are no longer sort of your bank for paying off these people in the caching kill& that explains why it is that michael cohen had to take out this home equity loan that we were hearing about just as the testimony was ending today and explain that difference. now, there's why it is that the national enquirer wasn't paying for this third and final scheme with respect to stormy daniels, but it had to be paid for by michael cohen. so i think that is a very important new detail that we heard that helped flesh out the scheme that we, the basics of which we knew about your book breaks down the very colorful cast of characters in this specific case, but not necessarily trump's assisted rhona graff and michael cohen's banker, gary farro. these lower profile voices set up the

sitting there and everybody asking david pecker or talking on the air about questions about what david pecker knows, i'm thinking it's possible that david pecker has a few more secrets about donald trump than the ones that are being discussed. >> i think you're absolutely right, i expect david pecker to be on the stand through the end of the week. i think the prosecution has at least several more hours of direct testimony with david pecker. first of all, we left off yesterday with the beginning of the karen mcdougal settlement, that means we have to talk through that story, the stormy daniels settlement and the enquirer's involvement in that. as you mentioned, through 2017 when we know that david pecker saw trump at least twice where he was thanked by trump for his contributions to the election. as you noted a lot of conversations still to testify to. david pecker testified yesterday to at least two conversations directly with donald trump. that august 2015 meeting that trump and cohen invited him to, when he got to, what can you do for us in relation to the campaign? what can you pers

the prosecution is setting up the prosecution here of where cohen was having direct contact with david peckert pecker know this, if he heard from michael cohen, he was hearing from trump, and that what seems to be in the line of questioning right now, josÉ. >> so interesting. and pecker is now talking about the popularity of trump for his magazine, previous to 2015, and certainly up to the election, but it's interesting, he's saying when mr. trump launched the "celebrity apprentice," basically "the national enquirer" skyrocketed and we did research on proper covers and which celebrity, and all the time, every time we did this mr. trump would be the top choice. this is a guy who had a lot of celebrity as his commodity which helped him get to the white house. >> absolutely. that's really the great power that trump has is his ability to marshal media attention and get it to shine on him. that's always been the biggest thing. it's not managing businesses, necessarily, and having them turn a profit. but i want to get back what we were just talking about a moment ago, them hearing about trump as a

david pecker and trump. is karen? >> is the implication of "house or girl," and "how's karen?" is she holding to agreement? >> is she and is she happy with what you've offered. talked on direct about the fact that karen mcdougal thought this was a serious arrangement. she was trying to forward her career and wanted to do red carpet interviews, she wanted to write columns in some of the fitness magazines, so at one point, david pecker has her come to new york and they have a meeting where he hears her out about her various complaints about her contractual arrangement with american media. why? he wants to come in his words, keep her in the family. hold her close. >> it's sad and sordid. i did think, as i was reading our notes on the internal slack , because we don't have the transcript, that the john edwards case is like, the closest parallel we have particularly because that ended up in acquittal, because that was this question of whether he was suppressing an explosive and embarrassing personal affair for ca

are unlawful david pecker says, yes. steinglass says, did either you or ami ever report to the federal election commission that ami had made a donation to of care, a payment to karen mcdougal. pecker says, we did not sign. glas says, why did ami and make this purchase of karen mcdougal story? pecker says, we purchased a story so it won't be published by any or other organization steinglass asked why did you not want it to be published by any other organization? pecker says, i didn't want we didn't want the story to embarrass mr. trump or embarrassed or hurt that campaign? hurt the campaign. bradley, first to you, why that focus, how much damage did it do to trump as we approach cross this morning yeah no that. >> was the meat and bones of the prosecution's case in terms the idea that this was all tied to the campaign, that this wasn't a personal thing that wasn't what rudy giuliani is to talk about it. oh, was just disparate as family the embarrassment. >> no the entire criminal congruent between ami and donald trump thre

we're talking about david pecker. amanda has been friends with donald trump's since the 80s, sitting right across from him in a witness. dan, just feet away from the former president as he stares him down, giving these dirty details about this catch and kill scheme in full detail. that is what we are expecting more for up tomorrow. and that all started of course, as we've learned from the testimony in august 2015, when they made that deal between trump, michael cohen and david pecker about being the eyes and the ears of a campaign and how they were going to find the stories that were negative about trump are salacious about trump bury them and promote stories that were positive ahead of that, campaign. they went into detail about that trump tower doorman who had a story about a woman who claimed that she fathered a child or he fathered a child of hers, and then before court wrapped up and david pecker was done for the day they got into the details about another playboy playmate, karen mcdougal, who of course alleged o

they're listening carefully to the witness, david pecker. some of them i even saw taking notes. and they will hear more from pecker when

it was on to business, part two of the questioning of david pecker. pecker, who owned american media inc. in the early '90s was a smooth talking silver haired man who seems to have almost idolized donald trump. he described him as someone americans respected as the boss on "the apprentice," which was also the way michael cohen referred to trump. pecker said the trump covers were consistently the "national enquirer's" best seller. the other covers that sold a lot of enquirer magazines on the supermarket news stands, covers featuring stories about bill clinton's womanizing and hillary clinton enabling him. making the deal with michael cohen, something he says happened in august 2015 with cohen and then campaign communications director hope hicks in the room, was a win-win. the enquirer would publish negative stories about trump's opponents which they did repeatedly, particularly when ben carson, ted cruz, and marco rubio started rising in the polls in the spring of 2016. at the same time, running positive stories featuring donald trump as the ideal next