david pecker and, has a no prosecution agreement.ect to michael and stormy. >> i think there are a lot of aspects in this case, the twists and turns were very important. the coach wrote about how this could have been -- a case built around michael cohen mac was not strong reliable enough to warrant this watershed moment in american history. you were in that courtroom, a fixture if you will, sitting there doing the writing and analysis and trying to take it all in. is that an assessment that you could conclude that there were lanes available to the defense that would have put michael cohen back in a different box in terms of how the jurors viewed him, thereby resulting in acquittal or hung jury? >> i think michael cohen was a very complicated witness. he has a record that is not great. stormy daniels is complicated. what was hard about this case and his heart about a lot of criminal prosecutions, the witnesses are often difficult. they have criminal backgrounds, they lie and cheat and steal. usually when you end up in a courtroom for

what else is david pecker know? why is trump being so nice to him?i think the relationship goes back many years. while i would love to tell the viewers there is some bombshell ball of documents that i'm about to write a book about i cannot say that is the actual truth. when i think is one of the most interesting twists about all of this, david pecker who corrupted this media organization. he twisted and turned a news organization and to a criminal enterprise. the reason we were all here was because of that first catch and kill phrase. nobody really noticed it. >> it was that monday before the election, right? >> no one really noticed the initial story. the follow-up reporting by the associated press, the new york times and the new yorker. they were all competing to land the stormy daniels story. that really drove it home. the stories of hearing and different outlets. prosecutors started noticing. i remember thinking this is confirming what i always thought when i was there. something is going on. i walked out of court and i thought my golly gosh. i h

. >> let's talk about david pecker and the moment you heard the verdict. david pecker was the first witness called to the stand, unlikely, one of the most integral witnesses to the entire case. there were four questions asked by the jury to be read back to them, three of which pertain to david testimony, which was incredible for me to hear, and it showed how much importance they place on david testimony, and the credibility they put into his testimony as well. you worked for him during the time that the catch and kill scenario was put together, so what was it like for you in the courtroom, hearing 34 counts guilty for the president of the united states? >> i was starting to pack up. and then, the wi-fi was getting really spotty. we were all sitting there trying to get the hotspots. and then, judge merchan said, we've got a note, and it's a verdict. i was thinking, as soon as i heard the note back about a full request that involved david pecker. the read back of the testimony, that the jury had come to a determination about the falsification of the rectors

david pecker, as lisa said, was close to the defendant. he was a key witness.ave cross-examined hope hicks and said she was a liar. he did not. she provided deeply damning testimony. the same thing for jeff mccarney and on and on. what do all of the witnesses that did testify have in common? they were all people loyal to and aligned with donald trump, so for the people who say this was a witch hunt and it's unfair and it is a sham, these are donald trump's friends and allies and employees who testified. they were not even claimed to have been liked by donald trump and he had a choice to testify and to call witnesses in addition to bob costello and he chose not to. >> so, it is one thing for donald trump to say something as absurd as that. it is something else when donald trump sleep defense lawyer todd blanche goes on cnn , and we're going to show you what he said. you know, he had a tough time in the courtroom because he had that fax. he's hasn't even worse time on television. todd blanche, by the way, has a permanent invitation to come on this program wheneve

starting with david pecker and multiple days of testimony.yet his testimony may have been more critical than anyone else's in driving home to the jury that there was a conspiracy, executed by unlawful means and ultimately covered up by the falsification of business records caused by donald trump. that all started with david pecker and just continued. when i think about is there one moment? no, there is a series of moments every day that was two years in the making with alvin bragg's team thinking about how do you construct this case in a way that no one can say it is solely because of that guy who is disgruntled and upset because he served time in prison and that guy, the one he used to love, did not, and i think they did that masterfully. >> alvin bragg, the district attorney, made appearances in the courtroom, probably when his schedule allowed, a few times over the course of the trial during testimony, including, by the way, some of the most un-dramatic testimony he happened to be in the courtroom for, but he was there for every minute of

i was never in a meeting with david pecker. you may have passed me in the hallway, so in his memory, i'm a giraffe. i loomed large. i wrote in a memo every conversation i had. >> so, you are never in a meeting with david pecker? >> never. never been an immense presence. >> that is a difference. i wanted to talk to you about the other three cases because as i noted in my opening, there are three other cases pending including two federal cases that are definitely on hold. i want to play something you said to me last june about the timing. >> i can't imagine a circumstance where the department of justice would not it, if they're going to charge him, would not have done it so far in advance that we would have a resolution before he took office. >> so, we are a year later and waiting for the immunity ruling of the spring court. you think they could still get the january 6 case done if the supreme court rules in the next couple of weeks? >> seems unlikely. i didn't mean trump taking office, god forbid. i met before the election. i'm

david pecker.ion of any import of david pecker, a friend of donald trump's to this day, the head of the "national enquirer" where he talked about -- it wasn't just a catch and kill scheme. that's sort of our shorthand and the way we short-handed hush money. there were two parts to this scheme. one part was to catch and kill bad stories about donald trump. and the other part was to create false stories for a political candidate. and those false stories were first run by the political candidate. that is, david pecker's testimony under oath about what he agreed to with donald trump, tim's comment about the murdochs is that is just the new day david pecker. and we -- if you want to know that these are like fake stories that are coming out and being propagated, we just went through a trial about that. where the jury heard it and found -- remember, that was why it's a felony, is that they believed david pecker that there was this agreement. and so this is -- you don't need to look very far and you don't

david pecker says, you know, i met with donald trump and principal to principal we agreed on a catche a secret agreement where i read the national enquirer where it's going to both kill stories that would hurt you, and i would also deliberately foment stories with your aid against adversaries whether you're republican or democrat. it just struck me that was in 2015. in june 2016 there was proof positive that donald trump and his sons and others including paul manafort were at trump tower trying to do the same thing with russian emissaries. it just turned out they didn't have the goods. but the whole reason for that trump tower meeting was essentially tapped the same thing happened, which is we want a secret meeting with foreign actors, which by the way is illegal. foreign actors are not allowed to participate in presidential elections and to do the same thing how do i get private help to win an election, which is exactly what was happening with david pecker and the national enquirer. >> we're reporting at a time there's new charges of elector fraud. many other people pulled into that

hope hicks, david pecker, people aligned with and supportive of donald trump took the stand and they were not accused of lying. they were never cross-examined to say they were not telling the truth. and they brought the evidence out that the jury found to be guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. go to the actual evidence as opposed to putting on a label. because the facts matter. if they don't matter, this country is lost. there's no basis to have the rule of law or any system that protects us from authoritarianism. and there's a written transcript that everyone can look at to show what happened. we don't have to take anyone's word for it. it is an black and white. >> that is so true. and people can empower themselves to do that. there was something that the republican speaker of the house said during interview with fox news that stuck out to me. you've argued so many cases before the supreme court. he basically suggested that the supreme court can be relied on to save trump. like you could hear that. what was your reaction to hearing him talk about the supreme court like that? it is a di

was it not david pecker that said show me the money. >> i am sure david pecker at some point in the lifed exactly that. >> this is the news. it has to be true. have a good weekend. i am running over on time. we have more reporting on steve bannon, the former trump white house official headed to prison and rnc writing the platform. next we will hear from a probation officer about what president trump will have to do before his sentencing. t trump w before his sentencing. ead, lived with the one and only sotyktu, a once-daily pill for moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, and the chance at clear or almost clear skin. it's like the feeling of finding you're so ready for your close-up. or finding you don't have to hide your skin just your background. once-daily sotyktu was proven better, getting more people clearer skin than the leading pill. don't take if you're allergic to sotyktu; serious reactions can occur. sotyktu can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections, cancers including lymphoma, muscle problems, and changes in certain labs have occurred. tell your

hope hicks and david pecker were devastating witnesses.mony is so damning for donald trump as their cross-examination was with kid gloves. but nobody's testimony is more devastating to the former president that hope hicks because of her proximity. but if you take a step back and you separate these women and forget about the accident of their respective births. hope hicks coming from greenwich, connecticut, and the epitome of poise and grace contrasted with stormy daniels who had a very rough childhood and a mother who abandoned her but the difference in how they were trusted is palpable and a toxic brew of class and misogyny. there was a judgment about her credibility,that hope hicks may look the and you haveway she did, but she worked for to thinktrump twice. she left the white house and came back to work for him and stayed after he lost the election despite the fact she was privately advising him that he lost in the things that people were saying about is not losing the election were fraudulent. and she still stayed. and i thought, who l

hope hickson david pecker, the person who headed the national enquirer, were devastating witnesses.ning for donald trump and their cross-examination was kid gloves. >> nobody's testimony is in some restricts -- respects more devastating than hope hicks because of her proximity. no one questioned her credibility but if you take a step back and forget about the accident of their respective births, hope hicks coming from very wealthy greenwich connecticut, being raised as the ralph lauren model, the epitome of poise and grace in the trump white house contrasted with stormy daniels, who had, by contrast, a very rough childhood, a mother who abandoned her -- all of this comes out on her direct examination but the difference in how they were trusted, i think, is really palpable in sort of a toxic brew of class and misogyny. there was absolutely a judgment about her credibility based on what she did for a living and then you have to think to yourself well, wait a second, hope hicks may look the way that she did but she not only worked for trump once, she worked for trump twice. she left th

but what changed me is when david pecker testified. it brought it all into focus for me and talked about not just how i think the substantively there was a lot there for them to move on, but how compelling it was and how important it was. and i think that for alvin bragg to look at that as we got ultimately a chance to when we saw the evidence. he saw the evidence way before us. and he's confronted with a situation which is, well, do i prosecute him or do i take a pass on it because it's donald trump or do i prosecute it because we have somebody who did something really egregious here that really had an impact on election, and i think i have a very solid case on the law. and i think he does. and i think the facts really supported that. >> i agrow that it got stronger as we watched the witnesses, and i think the prosecution made a number of smart moves. maybe the smartest of all was starting with david pecker because the stakes with so clear. and i think, david, what you're pointing to is this essential question ethat trump raises for r

they allowed michael cohen and david pecker two, number one, cohen was allowed to say i pled guilty tolation, and david pecker was allowed to say i entered a nonprice agreement wih the department of justice or the fec, and then when they brought in oklahoma they tried to bring in an fec guy, brad smith, and the judge basically said no, and then the third or fourth is, wait a minute, you should have an adverse witness charge because of columns, the voucher, the invoice, and the check. nobody put donald trump on any of those important bookkeeping records. allen weisselberg was the guy who made the decision. the prosecution didn't call him. that's a missing witness that the jury should have said you can presume he would have said something negative to the prosecution. that's why they didn't call him. >> harold: i think your first two are stronger. what did you think about the jail, what they are talking about in terms of the sentencing? what do you think is going to happen? >> jesse: i think he is the only person the democrats ever want to put in prison. everybody else they let out. it's

he had david pecker do mockups of your father with lee harvey oswald . you are defending this guy?sycophancy going on here is olympic level and what's going to suffer his democracy and justice, which should be the twin pillars of our country, right? and yet they are all falling all over themselves to say this is not how the justice system should function this is exactly how the justice system should function. chuck said the other day that win or lose, whatever happened here, we should respect the verdict of this jury. everything i saw from this jury showed an engaged and vested, serious group of people who were coming together to make a great decision and they understood that what they were doing was particularly serious giving who the defendant was but it wasn't like they took this flippantly. and yet we have donald trump and his republican allies continuing to call the process a sham. the judge corrupt. the district attorney a sham with racial overtones that i find particularly grotesque. >> more coverage of the guilty verdict and donald trump's criminal trial after a quick break

but not hope hicks or david pecker. our panel had a front row seat to it all is back.ie, from your spot in the courtroom, what do you think of stormy daniels? how did she do from actually seeing her life, as opposed to just reading it cold? >> she did a spectacular job. stormy daniels's testimony did not come across as rehearsed. whether you liked it or not, because of the sincerity. didn't seem like she rehearsed or practiced her testimony. given, she had prepared and that is the big difference. preparing with lawyers is totally different. but she prepared for that and she did a great job and i think she knew that even though, i call it a detour, not a sideshow but 80 torr of the case took a detour to export what happened between her and donald trump because he had to create the foundation of why the payment was made by michael cohen. how it got to the level of the business records being falsified. but you needed to have that dialogue. and what is really important, everybody likes to say that this is a paper case but is about humanity in some way, right? people's cour

they allowed michael cohen david pecker to number one.as allowed to say i pled guilty to a federal election campaign violationty to . entere and d david pecker was allowed to say i entered a non agreement with the department of justice or with the fec. and then when they brought in, t they tried to bring in an epicon guy, brad smith. and the judge basically said, no. urth >> and then the third or fourthi is, wait a minuts,e, you shoulds have an adverse witness charge because of columns voucher the invoice and the check. nobody put donal t d on any of those important bookkeeping records. >> alan weissenberg was the guy who made the decision that them. prosecution didn't call him. >> that's a missing witness, that the tha should have said.e he you can presume he would have said something negative to the prosecution. >> that's why they didn't call him. i think that onc >> he a week and i think your first two are stronger. what do you think about the the jail did you thi, what theyt about in terms of the the sentencing? >> what do you think i

have to go on are artists' sketches of the trial's main characters: judge merchan, witnesses like david peckersasquatch in heat. now, as colorful... [cheers and applause] as colorful as those sketches are, trump hasn't been happy about how he's been depicted. reports are he's privately raging over everything from how the court sketch artist is rendering him, to late-night talk show hosts joking about his legal troubles. [cheers and applause] hey! hey. which gave me an idea... what if a late night talk show host used the actual courtroom sketches trump doesn't like to joke about his legal troubles? well, thanks to cutting edge non-ai technology known as "hu-man art-ists", we have recreated the trial exactly as it has happened. jim? >> "the late show" presents court sketch court. tonight's episode: "to sketch a predator." >> order, order. we now resume the trial of the people of new york versus donald trump. [snoring] >> hannibal lecter! i'm sorry. where am i? >> it's okay, mr. president. here's your binky. now focus on your papers. >> this is a tough one. >> who's a good president? you are. you

he used michael cohen, used david pecker. he uses people. here he uses surrogates.weaponization in the house judiciary. you see what happens during the trial when he brings red tie brigade. he is saying what he is saying. it will hurt him. part of me is like go ahead, say it, you are digging a hole. >> on one hand you have this rhetorical framework that donald trump and allies are working with as you said to shift the prism of this up coming election. at the same time you have techno crats doing the work, what we saw from the supreme court allowing for racial gerrymandering, the fact that if they can't win with the current rules then they will, in tandem with this rhetoric, work on changing the rules. >> a couple things. the first is those do work in tandem because what you have is donald trump saying i will do anything which is like outrageous out to here. then you have the techno crats who say we will only go this far. so he sets outer bounds of outrageousness and they set a bounds that would have been outrageous unto itself but seems quite within the bounds of no

why do you think they made a point of repeating that david pecker but a point of saying he sold the most magazines ever. why did they keep saying the present -- president of the united states. all of that was at least in part to assuage the ego of their defendant. we would not be here if it was not for the ego of this defendant. that is what gets him and all of this trouble. having the affair with the adult film star while his wife has a baby upstairs. all of this stuff, the ego surrounding it is what got him into this position. the fact that he ran for president then ran for president again. that he lied about all of these things. it's all ego driven. >> he was never held accountable because of wealth when he was younger, celebrity when he was older. >> he has the unique ability to have no shame. >> it has been his superpower but think of all the people in the last 24 hours were saying it was a kangaroo court, unfair, sham, i have yet to find anyone saying he didn't do it. >> i have yet to find any of them safe which specific charge, there were still 54 charges to go, which specific cha

is it -- is david pecker -- is he rigged? is hope hicks rigged? is jeff mcconnie rigged? own notes rigged? if you go to the actual facts and just dig an inch below the surface, it's blood. it's like, you can use that adjective all you want, and facts really do need to matter. >> you have been on the facts bandwagon. >> absolutely. >> it's the only way we get you to do these shows. >> i leave claire to talk politics. i'll talk about facts. yeah, facts have to matter. i go back to charlottesville. i spent a lot of time thinking about, in a broken community, nicole, a really fractured place where there was a lot of misperceptions and a lot of anger, let's just start with the truth. let's just start with a credible narrative of what happened. if we can agree on that, then you can start thinking about how to prevent it and what it means and are there broader things that we need to do to reinforce our community, our democracy? we have a hard time in this country even agreeing on the facts because a lot of people question the messenger, and that's what the defendant in this case

donald trump, david pecker, michael cohen.n charge, that is the felony bump up charge. >> right, like in the case we talked about with the construction guy it was bribery, in furtherance of a bribery scheme. >> that means the unanimous jury found falsification of business records and a violation of new york election law. my view of that is that is called corrupting an election. corrupting a presidential election. by the way, not corrupting a presidential election where donald trump in 2016 beat hillary clinton in a landslide. it was a squeaker. i believe roughly pennsylvania, wisconsin and michigan were a total of 80,000 votes. now the essence of the conviction is that it was to ensure that the stormy daniels story would not break in the last two weeks of october. right on the heels of the access hollywood tape. and by the way, at the same time hillary clinton was getting hit with the comey investigation. >> right, so it is arguably -- >> it was a volatile mix. we will never know if trump one because of that, but we will know

argue that the guilty plea by michael cohen to election fraud and the non-prosecution agreement by david peckering to do with election fraud essentially meant that donald trump committed election fraud. now, the judge gave an instruction that said you shouldn't consider that, but he allowed the prosecution to make what i believe are very improper argument as. so the real issue's on appeal. it is true both in the state and federal system that the overwhelming number of prosecutions are affirmed on appeal, but i think he's got some real issues. neil: all right. rebecca, with the sentencing set for july 11th, only days before the republican convention, can judge merchan actually seriously consider putting donald trump in jail if even briefly while this is on appeal? >> well, jail is a possibility based on his 34 felony counts. i completely agree with sol about the appellate process in new york. air -- i've appealed many cases in new york, and overwhelmingly the cases are affirmed. i believe in this matter the fact that there's a qume la ative the effect -- cumulative effect of negative judicial ac

the former publisher of the "national enquirer," david pecker, cohen, and trump.ompany signed a nonprosecution agreement and he received immunity from federal prosecutors in exchange for cooperation on the investigation. cohen went to prison. and now, trump has been convicted and is awaiting sentencing for his crimes. i'm joined now by michael cohen, former personal attorney for then president donald trump and prior to that, principal of crisis x and a key witness in trump's trial. he is the host of the mea culpa podcast, cohost of the political beatdown podcast, and author of "revenge, how donald trump weaponized the u.s. department of justice against his criticri and disloyal, a memoir of the former personal attorney to donald j. trump. i want to start on a note that is not pleasant. it does appear the consequences for your cooperation in this election interference trial have been personal and you have thought about it and talked about it before. you were doxed, your family was doxed after the verdict. the phone numbers of yourself, your wife, your children were

also, you have the main key witnesses in this case michael cohen, stormy daniels, david pecker, hope hicks, they're all public figures with access to the press themselves several of them have already commented, i think it's a little different with the jury. i think judges are very protective of jurors, even after they have served, especially is such an inflammatory situation. here and we're their identities have largely been kept secret. i wouldn't be surprised if the judge kept the restrictions on the jury and effect, but witnesses, i do think trump has a good point, judge. >> you agree with it? >> i do. i agree that it is not entirely a crazy request, but it would not be crazy for him to continue the gag order either. let's remember, the defendant is convicted with the case has not wrapped up. that defendant is yet to be sentenced, and a judgment of conviction, therefore, has not yet been entered. so i think it'd be well within his rights to do it, but i agree completely that the judge that any judge we'd much more concerned about jurors then witnesses, particularly public witnesse

anything they made a point to repeating that david pecker said that he sold the most magazines ever? why do they keep saying the president of the united states? all of that was at least, in part, to assuage the ego of their defendant. i mean, we would not be here if it wasn't for the ego of this defendant. that is what gets him and all this trouble. having the affair, allegedly, with the adult film star while melania has a baby upstairs. all of the ego surrounding this is what got him into this decision. the fact that he ran for president, then he ran for president again in light about all these things. it is all ego driven. >> and he was never held accountable, because of wealth when he was younger, celebrity when he was a little older. >> and he has the unique ability to have no shame. >> it has been his superpower. but think about all the people in the last 24 hours who were saying it was a kangaroo court, it was unfair, it was a sham. i have yet to find anyone saying he didn't do it. >> i have yet to find any of them say which specific charge, and there are still 54 charges to go

let's think about what these guys rods known streets day because wriggle and heidi gardner and david pecker 25 million that really could make a difference. >> it could make it and it makes a difference. and hospitals do an enormous amount of money with this with what's raised locally and if you look at the pediatric cancer drugs that have been developed recently, there are six last 30 years. >> they all started in hospitals all of them. >> where do you find hope will advance is like crispr. this is a new genetic tool immunotherapy offer some hope to these kids were at a moment of there's going to be a greatly forward in science and new cancer drugs are going to cure people who now have terminal diseases, adults and children so where i find hope and what i hope is going to happen is that kids are going to get access to these drugs two, and that there's going to be enough to fund researchers who are researching drugs for children. so that's why what you're doing is so important. >> and your website again, for everybody at home, kids, v cancer.org, i knew it. i just want wanted to say thank yo

david pecker was almost worshipful of trump. >> still. >> as was hope hicks, as was jeffrey mcconaugheyre damning and yet they still were trump people. i do think about john dean a lot because john dean was the guy that turned on nixon and said he came clean and he's remembered for that. that is john dean. john dean got up to a lot of funny business before that moment which is way less remembered. >> there's a reason he was in a position >> he was chin deep in that stuff, had a moment of conscious and came forward and told about what he was seeing and i think there's something to take away there. >> michael cohen's testimony was subjected to a very high level of scrutiny by this jury upon direct instruction from the judge. judge merchan said, you need to keep in mind here michael cohen is an accomplice in the charged crime. so therefore, you may not accept his testimony except if it is corroborated by other evidence and testimony. you can't take it alone, on his word. as michael just explained to us, every single thing he testified to that was substantively important to the charge was c

he doesn't talk about his collusion with david pecker to smear ted cruz. he talked about the others as an asset. he knows these facts are terrible for him politically. >> yeah, i think he does recognize that. but he's also a person i think we've all learned, he doesn't look at the polls and decide how to calibrate his pog. he takes a position and then tries to bend reality to it. and i think you see that pushing back against the gag orders. and for the record, i don't like that they're called gag orders because it plays into the narrative that he's being somehow unconstitutionally unfairly gagged by a system that is being weaponized against him. so i think a lot of work needs to be done explaining what the gag orders are meant to do. all they're essentially in a nutshell designed to do is to make sure that he doesn't ferment violence against the judges, the jury, the prosecutors, et cetera, to keep the process safe and that is not a high standard for anyone let alone someone who is a presidential candidate. but what really worries me, nicolle, is that i do

it wasn't just michael cohen or david pecker or stormy daniels . it was the stormy daniels.the paperwork. trump signed the checks. i mean, how much more do you need? and so this is a guilty . every newspaper in the guilty. every newspaper in the country, every newspaper in the country, every newspaper in the country said that he was guilty 34 counts. and how did it get to be a felony? because it was tied to election rigging and the meetings. even hope hicks confirmed that it was a crisis. about what happened with access hollywood. and they didn't want more anti—woman stuff. okay, so every every newspaper in the country made it that it was it was tied to election rigging. it was tied to election rigging. it was a continuation of the election rigging that he did in georgia. and the and trying to change the electors of people that weren't even electors , that weren't even electors, making them electors all around the country. what this guy has decided that the law is applicable to nobody but him. okay. american people are sick of it. >> bob, i just want to bring seb in here now