fascinating footnote is that david plouffe a fervent supporter of the president attacked lanny davis for saying this about kathryn ruemmler who admits she knew well in advance about the irs abuse. >> i don't know ms. ruemmler but they don't think about anything more than the legal issues. it's an investigation. we are not going to share the conclusions. you don't have to. just give a heads up and do crisis management planning. >> so, davis gets hammered by obama acolytes for saying that. i don't get it so the white house strategy is clear. the president did not know anything about the irs targeting conservative groups. even though his top advisors did. also new information from the daily caller web site, it says ms. ruemmler met with christophered me, chief counsel for the treasury department which overseas the irs three times last fall. the two had never met one-on-one before. ed me is a long time left-wing activist who apparently knew about the irs investigation a year ago. it's clear ms. ruemmler and mr. mead must testify in front of congress and white house chief of staff mcdonou

when politico first came out, i think it was the campaign manager, david plouffe who dropped it down on who dropped it down on david pfeiffer's desk and said "this is trouble." what did he see? >> i think to be blunt they would say it now. they would say it's trouble in that here's a group of reporters obsessed about politics. they're going to obsess about process. they're going play up the intrigue behind the scenes which only leads often to negative story lines. they don't want people playing up the conversations that are happening behind the scenes. they want to control the dialogue. control the debate so they can get the policies and the political results that they want slopgs you're doing your job and getting it right i think they're going to respect the work you're doing even if they don't like an individual column or piece. >> rose: let me talk about the controversy today. number one, leading to the question of whether republicans can overply their hand. >> they already have. >> rose: already have? tell me. >> well, republicans know they are the one person to mess this up. ther

david plouffe had an office running out of the white house. could have been going on 157 times?157 times, you need 160 more to catch up to -- need more than 100 visits if you're hillary clinton to catch up. does that seem odd to you? >> maybe it's bromance. obviously the president likes chris christie. the answerzvñr is what tucker jt said, what the daily caller, and i commend forç them, cabinet members around required toç log in, so not every single visit is a matter of public record. >> sean: but 157 -- >> sean, if you're going to have a clandestine meeting about targeting conservative groups. the president is not a stupid man. you'll have it at the white house. how dumb is shulman told by his boss to target them by 118 times? it doesn't add up. >> sean: he's there 157 times. hillary clinton 43 visits. tim geithner -- >> here's what's not plausible, okay? i don't believe that all 157 visits were devoted to crushing the tea party. but what's not believable -- maybe they were, we don't know -- but what's not believable is the idea that 1 of this -- keep awar in mind, the s was

but david plouffe, senior adviser to the president, sends out this tweet on the irs matter that readswhat irs did, dumb and wrong, important to note, gop groups flourished last two elections, overwhelming d dz, meaning democrats, and they will use this to raise more money. and ron foreinier tweeted back, why is that important to note about -- he writes, is that justification for the action you just called wrong? >> and that's the problem. the problem here in all of this is that if you are operating from a hyperpolitical universe -- being president and being a candidate is very hard. being president and being a politician is very hard. but what you see from plouffe there is the ends justifying the means that it's, don't worry about this, it's all just a numbers cagame, it's all very cynical. and you saw it on the benghazi situation where the president's administration is being accused of seeking explanations to difficult, painful things to turn around and say, you're playing politics, too. the answer being, it doesn't count. it doesn't count if everybody's playing politics. we're going

no indication, you don't have an e-mail that says -- and maybe that'll still come out -- that david plouffemebody in the pretty l unit of the white house was saying, hey, look, we've got an election, we've got to get this out there. again, it may come out, but it hasn't soft. gregg: there's a bit of a light drizzle as you can tell from the umbrellas that have popped up from the rose garden. chris, let me get back to you on that. that one e-mail in which victoria knewland says on behalf of the building and, you know, you have to assume that's the leadership and that is maybe hillary clinton, we don't want to get blamed. we don't want to get blamed by congress for the deaths of four americans. i mean, that's, essentially, what the e-mail says, doesn't it? >> oh, absolutely. i mean, it's hard to say it is what it says, basically, why do we want to put this information out there and give it to congress when we know they're going to use it to beat us up. there's certainly, you know, some positive posterior coverinu will, bureaucratic posterior covering by the state department in those e-mails al

david plouffe tweeted this week basically, you know, this would be a total electoral tsunami. with that conclusion. but i want to look a little bit more at it because i kind of wonder if we talk about ted cruz in 2016 if we're asking the wrong question when we talk about electability. that's after this. flying is old hat for business travelers. the act of soaring across an ocean in a three-hundred-ton rocket doesn't raise as much as an eyebrow for these veterans of the sky. however, seeing this little beauty over international waters is enough to bring a traveler to tears. we're putting the wonder back into air travel, one innovation at a time. the new american is arriving. >>> we were talking a little bit about the potential electability of ted cruz or someone like him. the disclaimer you have to put on all these discussions, 1980, people said roin couronald reag could never be elected. there's too much damage having seen as that extreme and that kind of personality. anyway, we talk about electability. i said maybe we're asking the wrong question. i want to put a clip up. thi

david axelrod and plouffe won for obama. the same is true to karl rove. he did pretty well. some of the old pros in 2008 and 2012, the republicans weren't so great. i'm a fan of bringing in new people. if hillary is intelligent enough to say who the best winning races at the state level, let me have them run my presidential campaign not people who have been around 20 or 30 years ago. host: william kristol weekly editor. let's go to florida, a republican. caller: good morning. now that the congress has brought to light the issues surrounding the i.r.s. scandal, i think it's about time they step aside hold a special counsel and proceed to give instructions to special counsel to address this from a violation of civil rights. mainly title 18. these are very serious allegations and they should be brought to light based on a criminal investigation. identify the individuals and bring that to a special grand jury to determine whether or not they should be prosecuted. interestingly enough, when you start doing it that way, people start talking more when they look like they're going t

>> well, it's from dennis mcdonough to david axelrod to tom donelan to plouffe plouffe, et cetera, that ultimately decided -- >> rose: plouffe was not in government at that time. >> no, but they all had -- but those who were in the white house that day -- that they had the -- they had the decision ultimately as to recommendations that come from the different agencies of the government. ultimately what ends up being an option that the president would consider and then would ask questions for and would then go to the relevant agencies and say what would it take to resource this, how long will it take, what are the results? but that wasn't there. as i said in woodward's book, it's very clear there are only two options on the table. >> rose: here's what's important, this book, "the dispensable nation: american foreign policy in retreat" suggesting that no longer are we the indispensable nation, we are in fact, the dispensable nation. american foreign policy in retreat. a lot of people-- and this is a very important point to make. a lot of people who think seriously and deeply about foreign

david axelrod and plouffe won for obama. the same is true to karl rove. he did pretty well.ome of the old pros in 2008 and 2012, the republicans weren't so great. i'm a fan of bringing in new people. if hillary is intelligent enough to say who the best winning races at the state level, let me have them run my presidential campaign not people who have been around 20 or 30 years ago. host: william kristol weekly editor. let's go to florida, a republican. caller: good morning. now that the congress has brought to light the issues surrounding the i.r.s. scandal, i think it's about time they step aside hold a special counsel and proceed to give instructions to special counsel to address this from a violation of civil rights. mainly title 18. these are very serious allegations and they should be brought to light based on a criminal investigation. identify the individuals and bring that to a special grand jury to determine whether or not they should be prosecuted. interestingly enough, when you start doing it that way, people start talking more when they look like they're going to