their witness was still not cooperating with us, the dcaa, the company's still not cooperating with us, they still will not provide the records for us to find out whether the company was paying for the kickbacks or the manager was just doing it out of the company's spirit from his own resources. although you can understand why one would have been interested in looking at the company books. what do you think about a contractor like that mymy who has gone on to receive lucrative contracts? >> again, it's not in our database. kickbacks is a problem. the -- it's often excused with one bad apple theory, but at that point you need to still look at overall corporate culture. i'm probably more concerned by the latter part of your comment, and that is that they didn't -- aren't cooperating with dcaa or this commission in providing information as a government contractor. i would probably consider them nonresponsible, and at that point they shouldn't be eligible for contracts whether it's a suspension, debarment or a de facto suspension in the fact that that should be something that's taken a loo

sometimes that's in parallel with the referral to -- >> and dcaa sometimes does the same, and -- >> yeah. >> and then they still get the award, and there's nothing written that explains why the recommendation notwithstanding was still decided. >> true. >> do you agree with that recommendation? >> whole heartedly. >> captain harrington, can you, can you speak to this recommendation and whether you agree to it or not or think it makes sense? >> if i could ask you to repeat the question, sir. >> our recommendation 23 is require a written rationale for not pursuing a proposed suspension or debarment when it's been recommended by an inspector general or recommended by dcaa. or -- >> or senior employee of that organization. >> or a senior employee of that organization. >> sir, in my capacity i think that if there are programming changes or inputs or things that need to be changed to the system, i will be able to provide that. our -- >> i hear you, captain. admiral, could you speak to that recommendation? whether there should be some kind of written -- not some kind, a written rationale for not

when we had the hearing with dcaa and dcma, we realized we were ships passing in the night.that is what i feel is happening right here. do you have a sense some of this is occurring? >> are you asking me, sir. >> yes, sir. >> chairman shays, i will tell you i think the isdc provides a very valuable opportunity for us not to be ships passing in the night. i've been in the meetings. they were very valuable place to exchange information that is separate question whether we need to get that report in and the answer to that is, yes, we need to get that report into congress. >> the 09 report and 2010? >> yes, sir. >> both of them? yeah. do you understand, mr. gordon, why congress requested it? >> yes, sir. >> mr. blalock, do you understand why they requested you to do this? >> i do, sir. >> okay. >> i said i would yield back some of my time since i already used up more time when mr. , my co-chairman was asking questions. so we're going right to mr. green. >> thank you. >> okay. mr. zakheim asked you very briefly about the new compliance you established for compliance and oversight

will you be willing to have the matter gone over by the auditors at the dcaa?and if it is possible to make the call back of money make the clock back of the money? >> i certainly won't say no to the clawback of money. i can't tell you of the feasibility of it. and we talked briefly earlier about this particular transaction, and as i said then, i am happy to talk about the subject surrounding it in general, but not the specific transaction. it is one that i'm aware of and one that deserves attention. >> let me go on, my time is short. separate question, you are very, very good as to the problems with the award contract that comes up to sit strong statements twice in your competition memo. well, in the theatre, the number one, never to be and member of the biggest award for the contracts which are in the billions each of our, not by that i need afghanistan or pbr which use it is afghanistan which now have afghanistan. it has been many years since we had an acquisition strategy. this 2005 that the first set let's have an acquisition strategy to go from law cap iii

when we had the hearing with dcaa and dcma, we realized we were ships passing in the night. that is what i feel is happening right here. do you have a sense some of this is occurring? >> are you asking me, sir. >> yes, sir. >> chairman shays, i will tell you i think the isdc provides a very valuable opportunity for us not to be ships passing in the night. i've been in the meetings. they were very valuable place to exchange information that is separate question whether we need to get that report in and the answer to that is, yes, we need to get that report into congress. >> the 09 report and 2010? >> yes, sir. >> both of them? yeah. do you understand, mr. gordon, why congress requested it? >> yes, sir. >> mr. blalock, do you understand why they requested you to do this? >> i do, sir. >> okay. >> i said i would yield back some of my time since i already used up more time when mr. , my co-chairman was asking questions. so we're going right to mr. green. >> thank you. >> okay. mr. zakheim asked you very briefly about the new compliance you established for compliance and oversigh