and my second question is, regarding certification, the you see in your research that -- ddc in yourrch that -- host: before you go, what was your degree and an are you working in that study? caller: i studied engineering. i am working as a metallurgist. guest: what has happened in the economy, and we see this happen in 1983 literally after the 1981 recession, is that school requirements went up dramatically as technology reorganize the way the economy work. computer technology automated all repetitive tasks, as many as it could, and what was left was non-repetitive work. that required higher levels of knowledge and more general skills. to make a long story short, the entry level qualifications when out. so employers are now not keeping people on the job for six years in teaching them the job the way that they did when i was coming into the might -- the labor market. they have to have people qualified on day one and they prefer people qualified with experience. in this market, they get their pick of the letter. host: we have a tweet from jim hines. back to the phones in queens, new y