about it, it looks like they're struggling with self-defense, and whether he a reason to use deadly, physical force, and if they find that he had a reason to use deadly, physical force and he had a reason to act in self-defense, they're headed toward an aquits in the case. it that's the read on the tea leaves. as i say, i'm not going that far. it's too vague i think, to really be definitive. >> it's hard to call. we're going to take a short break, because i have more questions for you, paul callan, on this case, which is very emotional, and lots of parallels being made between this case and the trayvon martin/george zimmerman case as well. >>> much more, right after this. [poof!] [beep] [clicks mouse] nice office. how you doing? good. automatic discounts the moment you sign up. choose two melt-in-your mouth entrees, olive garden's best 2 for $25 yet is ending soon! like new parmesan crusted chicken, 3 courses, 2 people, just $25 at olive garden! also enjoy weekday signature favorites, four classic pastas, now just $10! introducing cardioviva: the first probiotic to help maintain healthy cholesterol

and if you're correct that the use of deadly physical force was justified on one, then they're looking at the attempted murder counts on the other three, did he have the right to fire deadly physical force into the vehicle as to the other three individuals? and the judge is saying, you know, you have to consider each count individually. now, it's a close question as to whether that's an accurate thing to say to the jury because, less say hypothetically he's justified in firing at jordan davis and one of those shots hits another person in the car. is that attempted murder on the other person or is that justifiable because he was trying to hit the first person. so you see how complicated this stuff gets to be and so i think what the judge is saying, listen, there's an at teftempte murder count for each person in the car. look at them individually. did he intend to kill somebody other than jordan davis when he fired the shot, did he have a right to shoot at that person? that's how they're supposed to be looking at it. at the individual counts and not sort of doing this big picture analysi

of course the jury's going to take into consideration and just the whole concept of using deadly force and the jury some of them came out and said that that was part of the jury instruction that they were given and if it wasn't part of the jury instruction they were given i know that they talked about that that was part of the analysis that they or the rationale that they used in order to support a those not voting for guilty and wound winding up in the in the dunn case with a with that with a hung jury unreal and considering that marissa alexander also a florida case the woman shot of want of a warning shot at her abusive husband goes to jail for twenty years i think there's a lot of pressure on that firm retrial but when unarmed black teenagers are killed and their perpetrators are released what's your response people who say this is not about race as you said you know it's happened a vacuum case by case basis that has nothing to do with race well i think race plays a an incredibly. important element in first of all in michael dunn's assessment that he could or should be able to tell

i felt threatened i was armed therefore i used deadly force to vanquish the threat and in the instanceof trayvon martin. no weapon in the instance of jordan davis no weapon but the narrative that the defense was able to construct and unfortunately i think the prosecutor corey is just it's just inept. is that is that they were able to play to a sense ability of some of those jurors that these were black males we know these black males are threatening therefore it was rational for michael dunn to feel threatened even though no weapon was found and i have to just state that stand your ground isn't bedded in florida's law dealing with the use of deadly force of course the jury's going to take into consideration and just the whole concept of using deadly force and the jurors some of them came out and said that that was part of the jury instruction that they were given and if it wasn't part of the jury instruction they were given i know that they talked about that that was part of the analysis that they or the rationale that they used in order to support a those not voting and wound it windi

incredible restraint and united states in that situation they would have been justified in using deadly force now how would you instruct ukrainian police in dealing with the protests if they continue. i think throughout the history of riots you see if there's not a strong police presence then the the tag nies is the agitators they become emboldened and become more violent and more aggressive so there needs to be a strong police presence in those circumstances to control the violence now police in ukraine have come under some criticism especially from washington given that riders have thrown molotov cocktails and they've actually both bird and beat officers is this criticism from washington fair well i can't get into the politics but i can look at it just strictly from a police standpoint and i think again the police have shown incredible restraint if you are in the situation where i've seen videos of police officers on fire again that's a deadly situation and they certainly in the united states would have the legal right to use deadly force in response to that so any criticism of the police o

are we determining if deadly force is justified against each person in each count? the answer is yes. the third question. or if we determine deadly force is justified against one person, is it justified against the others? no. self-defense and justifiable use of deadly force applies separately to each count. >> reporter: the judge brought in don and asked him if he had any concerns with the responses to the questions. and dunn did express concerns over the judge's response to the third question about justifiable force saying that he felt that all four people in the suv are intertwined with his defense of self. the judge said he understood that, but he still felt that because of the law, he had to instruct the jury to consider each count separately. fredricka? >> and sunny, let me bring you in. do those questions reveal to you and the answers as well as real clarity? or does this only bring more confusion potentially for this jury? j . >> reporter: you know, i think it's clear they're struggling with the self-defense. if you look at the law it is true that self-defen

are we determining if deadly force is justified against each person in each count? the answer is yes. the third question. or, if we determine deadly force is justified against one person, is it justified against the others? no. self-defense and justifiable use of deadly force applies separately to each count. >> and all of this coming after a question last night. is it possible to not reach a verdict on one count but reach a verdict on others? the judge said yes. michael dunn faces murder and attempted murder charges for a shoot that left a 17-year-old jordan davis dead. cnn legal analyst sunny hostin joins me live from jacksonville to help me break it down. what could we read into the jury questions? when you hear the judge's explanation it sounds complicated and one can understand why the jurors have these kinds of questions. >> that's right. i think it's very clear from the questions that they are struggling with the concept of self-defense because that has been front and center here. michael dunn testified, which is very unusual in a first degree murder case. bu

i don't know if you are aware of it, but we spent in excess of eight hours on the justifiable deadly force alone behind the scenes and in the courtroom to make sure we were doing it exactly the right way. i don't remember who or where said it was an easy case for the state attorney to come in and try. no case is easy. there are nuances to the every case, and the jury instructions are always complicated and especially so in the justifiable use of deadly force case cans. and we have learned a lot, and we will go through with that. as far as count one, until we know why they were a hung jury, they did not acquit, and so until we know why they were a hung jury, we would not know how to adjust, and the juror feedback is excellent for that, a and if we get the juror feedback, you heard the judge say that the jurors are at liberty to speak with whomever they please, and we hope to hear from them about what we could do better. >> and can you tell us what that feedback process is like, and what do you hope to hear from them, and do they have to talk to you? >> no, they are allowed to talk, and we h

a right to stand their ground, and can meet force with force, including deadly force. if they reasonably believe it is necessary. the trial sends a chilling message to parents that you can shoot first and ask questions later. that's not justice, and this law needs to change. back with us tonight, former prosecutor faith jenkins, florida criminal defense lawyer ken padowitz, and legal analyst lisa bloom. i want to hear from all of you first, starting with you, lisa. your reaction to the verdict. >> well we got justice for the three young men who by the grace of god survived this incident, even though bullets were whizzing by their heads in those three attempted murder convictions. we got justice for the car because he was convicted of shooting into a car. but we did not get justice for jordan davis, the 17-year-old unarmed kid who was -- who was killed by michael dunn. and so i think a retrial is very important. i think it's important that these prosecutors learn from their mistakes. we all make mistakes. the only problem is when we don't learn from them. we see that ha

self-defense and justifiable use of deadly force applies separately to each count. >> all right. and since then, the jurors were sent back to continue deliberations, and the court has been in recess. we haven't heard a word since for the family of jordan davis, of course, all of this has been very difficult. they thought this would be an open and shut case. we heard a short time in the form of a tweet from lucy macbeth, jordan's mother. tomorrow is my boy's birthdays. i hope we will have a righteous verdict. patiently we wait, and waiting is the name of the game right now. fredricka? >> sunny hostin, well, you know, martin kind of set it up there, that some thought this would be an open and shut case. certainly not one that would bring at least four days of deliberations, but that's exactly where we are. was that your view as well? open/shut? clear as determining whether michael dunn shot this 17-year-old jordan, and whether he felt a threat or not? >> you know, i have been listening to so much of the testimony i did feel going into deliberations the prosecution put on very, very

it has to do with the laws of justifiable use of deadly force. young black men who have walked on not guilty verdicts from shooting and killing other persons but nobody is ever outraged at those not guilty verdicts. everybody focuses on race. i wish they would stop doing that unless it truly is the issue in the case. >> i respect that. >> but i think that the facts and the law -- the facts and the law are what they are and i would invite scrutiny into all of our cases on justifiable use of deadly force and not just two of them. >> do you have any concerns as a public official that your job is on the line with these types of cases? and zimmerman not going right way, dunn not going the right way in many people's mind? does it make you worry about your job? >> first of all, dunn has gone the right way. we're 4/5 of the way for michael dunn. for the people who want to criticize me, they're going to do that no matter what we do. mr. dunn is looking 9 0 years in florida state prison with 60 years minimum mandatory. how anyone can be unhappy with these

when you used deadly force?hy it is that someone who flees the scene of a crime and doesn't report a crime to the police, a shooting to the police, why is he able to then use stand your ground? shouldn't you forfeit that right to use stand your ground when you take actions that show consciousness of guilt? it just defies logic. and it gives people the reason and the opportunity to manufacture fear that is not there, because they're able to come in to court and say i reasonably feared for my life. when the fear is not reasonable, because they are not in life threatening situations. >> now, you know, to support that, ken, what i think a lot of people in this debate is missing, and i have clearly said that i'm against the law. i think it should be repealed and have participated in moves to try to get legislators to do so. but in both of these very well-known cases, what everyone refuses to deal with is that in both cases, neither one of the victims was threatening. there were no guns. trayvon martin was unarmed. an

the question for them, is it justified to use deadly force when you're being rocked? >> he was a really good person. he was always with me. >> her family filed suit after a border patrol agent shot the unarmed accused pot smuggler in the back as he fleed from mexico. while a crew threw rocks at the agent. >> how can you -- >> garcia said the border patrol uses deadly force in confrontations that don't require it. the report agreed. citing 20 fatalities in three years, eight involving rocks. >> rocks will cave in your skull. it is a deadly force situation no matter what the groups try to claim. >> as pictures show, rocks are every bit as dangerous as other weapons. >> it could be a rock, it could be a knife, a broken bottle. it could be another weapon. and i am not -- i will not be in a position to make that decision for the agent or even second-guess that split second decision. >> in 2010, agents tased this handcuffed man until he died, the same year agents responded to rock throwers by shooting the 16-year-old eight times through the border fence into mexico. >> it r

attorney check page twenty five start with page twenty five page twenty five reads the use of deadly force is justifiable that michael dunn reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm valerie went on to say that we all believe that there was another way out another option for him to the actions that michael dunn took but dunn didn't need to find another way out because of florida's stand your ground shoot first law thanks to that law and as the dunn's defense attorney repeatedly pointed out to the jurors all don had to do to get away with the murder of jordan davis was assert that he was scared for his life and scared of four black teenagers in an s.u.v. unfortunately our majority white society and culture were undone side to society's bias to believe that black people are scary but that white people aren't as a result the real consequence of stand your ground shoot first laws is that you have to assert that you are afraid of a black person to get a jury to agree with you which it seems they almost always will to get away with murder if th

chief charlie beck determined the officers violated policy by using such deadly force.says discipline could range from extensive retraining to some of the officers being fired. >> i sympathize with the officers but i have a very high standard for the application of deadly force and this shooting did not meet that standard. >> reporter: the mother and daughter who were fired on did settle with the l.a.p.d. they were paid $4.2 million. ben tracy, cbs news, los angeles. >> pelley: competition among drug dealers has made heroin deadlier than ever. new tv ads are aimed at persuading teens not to light up. and vladimir putin shows off his tender side when the cbs evening news continues. when they're in my shoes, my feet and legs feel less tired. it's like walking on a wave. dr. scholl's massaging gel insoles. i'm a believer! >> pelley: we learned today that actor philip seymour hoffman withdrew $1,200 from a.t.m.s the day before he was found dead with 70 packets of heroin his apartment. judge judge judge acting special agent in charge of the new york office of the drug enforc

that's a deadly situation and they certainly them united states would have the legal right to use deadly force in response to that. so a police officer perceives that there's a threat to themselves or somebody else they can respond with the pepper spray at times personal weapon strikes the electronic control devices. get the bread rises total of a word of thank you today or somebody else are being threatened with death or serious upon the harm than they can respond with deadly force. i think throughout the history of forever i it's pc if there's not a strong police presence. and then the bb antagonize is the agitators they become emboldened him to become more violent more aggressive. so there needs to be a strong police presence in those circumstances to control the violence. her eyes have not remained solely in kiev in western ukraine in many local government buildings were stormed by protesters who clashed with police while the latest opinion poll shows two thirds of the country are against the current wave of violence. he's posting a report from one of the regions were administration office

and especially in use of deadly force cases. we learned a lot. now, as far as count one, until we know why they were a hung jury, they did not acquit, so until we know why they were a hung jury, we wouldn't know what to adjust. juror feedback is excellent for that. if we get the jury feedback, you all heard the judge say, the jurors are at liberty to speak with whomever they please. we hope to hear from them on what we could have done better. >> what is the feedback process? what do you hope to hear from them? do they have to talk to you? >> no, they don't. they're allowed to talk. we've frequently had a juror call the office and say i'd like to talk to you about what we talked about back there. >> this is what we think that didn't work? >> they could say that. but obviously, they were out for a long time. so some of them were convinced, is what we're assuming, just based on past experience. but we'll just wait to see. you know, until we hear from them, we won't know. >> do you have to wait for them to contact you? >> we are not even if there was

was not justifiable. >> the law of justifiable use of deadly force is the state's burden to disproveo the exclusion of every reasonable doubt. think about that. they have got two burdens to carry. you cannot lawfully convict any human being unless every single element of the crime is proved beyond a reasonable doubt. >> and erin wolfson delivered the first part of the state's closing arguments. >> let me be very clear. on november 23rd, 2012, when this defendant shot and killed jordan davis, there was no gun in that duran go. there was no stick, there was no bat, there was no lead pipe. there was no gun. what was in that durango were four teenage boys. >> dunn is charged with first degree murder, meaning that it must be premeditated. wolfson repeatedly went after that this morning. >> the defendant's actions surrounding the killing. that's what you as members of the jury can use in determining whether or not what this defendant did on november 23rd, 2012, was premeditated murder. when he took that gun out and started shooting at point blank range, he knew what he was doing. he knew w

. >> at the heart of the case is the stand your ground law that says you can use deadly force if you feel threatened. the defense pointed out it is the state's responsibility to show mr. dunn was not in fear of his life. the state has to prove it wasn't self-defense. >> a danger facing michael dunn need not have been actual, that the appearance of danger must have been so real that a person under the same circumstances would have believed that the danger could be avoided only through the use of the force that ehe used. michael dunn must believe that the danger was real. that's the standard. that's our law. and whether you like the law or don't like the law, you have to use the law. and that blanket, that flag wraps around this man until the state can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it was not self-defense. >> but with jordan davis's parents sitting in the courtroom prosecutors urged the jury one last time not to forget the victim in this case. >> he was shot when leland bronson was franticly pulling his best friend away from this defendant, away from the gun that ultimately kill

somebody else are being threatened with death or serious bodily harm then they can respond with deadly force i think throughout the history of variety you see if there's not a strong police presence and then the the tag and i was the agitators they become emboldened and they become more violent and more aggressive so there needs to be a strong police presence in those circumstances to control the violence. and the riots have not remained solely in kiev in western ukraine many local government buildings were stormed by protesters who clashed with police while the latest opinion poll shows two thirds of the country are against of the current wave of violence policy or reports from one of the regions where administration offices were besieged. this is the regional administration building event notes on cards skin western ukraine where at the till a week ago the regional governor had his office but as you can see just like in key if there is now a giant barricade surrounding the building with snow tires and planks of wood radical and he russian this is the heartland of nationalism wear and tear

somebody else are being threatened with death or serious bodily harm then they can respond with deadly force i think throughout the history of variety you see if there's not a strong police presence then the the tag and eyes of the agitators they become emboldened and they become more violent and more aggressive so there needs to be a strong police presence in those circumstances to control the violence. and of the latest polls show two thirds of ukraine's did not support the turmoil that's and goals to the western regions in most of which local administration offices have either been stormed or besieged and many say all the country is under the threat of civil war are just policy you're traveling to one of the hotbeds of the unrest. this is the regional administration building event notes on card skin western ukraine where at the till a week ago the regional governor had his office but as you can see just liking kiev's there is now a giant barricade surrounding the building with snow tires and planks of wood radical and and he russian this is the heartland of nationalism where anti on a cop

somebody else are being threatened with death or serious bodily harm then they can respond with deadly force i think throughout the history of riots you see if there's not a strong police presence and then the the tag and eyes of the agitators they become emboldened and they become more violent and more aggressive so there needs to be a strong police presence in those circumstances to control the violence. let's take a quick look at the results of the latest poll that shows apparently two thirds ukrainians do not support the all that's engulfed the western regions which goes mostly local ministration offices of he's been stormed a besieged also too many feel the country's probably under the threat of civil war look because of the thirty two percent. pull to see a travel into one of the hotbeds of the rest. this is the regional administration building event notes on cards skin western ukraine where at the till a week ago the regional governor had his office but as you can see just like in key if there is now a giant barricade surrounding the building with snow tires and planks of wood radical

somebody else are being threatened with death or serious bodily harm then they can respond with deadly force i think throughout the history of riots you see if there's not a strong police presence then the tag and eyes of the agitators they become emboldened and they become more violent and more aggressive so there needs to be a strong police presence in those circumstances to control the violence the latest polls show two thirds of ukrainians are against the habit that's been plaguing kiev and the country's regions and over a dozen cities local administration offices were either seized or stormed that many feel the country's under the threats of civil war with far right groups the hearts of the protests warriors over the vi's of extremists are also mounting as alexie reports. chef ski barely remembers the horrific events of nine hundred forty three when ukrainian insurgents came to slaughter his village in western ukraine but the most tragic things live well in his memory. is one of them caught up and shot from close range there was a huge noise a bullet hit an ear with it touched the templ

somebody else are being threatened with death or serious climbing on them they can respond with deadly force. i think throughout the history of forever alliance. you see if there's not a strong police presence. and then the bb antagonize was the agitators they become emboldened him to become more violent more aggressive. so there needs to be a strong police presence in those circumstances to control the violence. do. mr temperament of the latest polling shows two thirds ukrainians do not support that at moments ago the western regions because of lead which was the bloke administration offices of either been stolen to proceed to besiktas and the meantime many feel the country probably of the festival was thirty two percent that month is coarsely and traveled into one the hall but to the address for. this is the regional administration building me a ton of fun coz kinda waste in ukraine where i can take a week ago that the regional governor had his office but as you can see just like it it is now a tie in to dedicate surrounding the building which snowed. ty is and planks of wood radical and a

tools in their arsenal victims of police brutality wonder why officers feel they need to resort to deadly force. for you know. they have no justification for using that type of excessive force and ultimately killing him and since knowing his own words i had no other options but to be his face to help ron thomas is still searching for justice after police officers were acquitted in the killing of his son kelly one of the officers jason cinelli is actually trying to get his job back. the defense in the case they said kelly thomas was was overly that he was he was reacting and in a violent way he was a he was a suspect on the street who was who was uncontrollable but when you watch the video it doesn't really add up there's still a memorial here for kelly thomas more than two years after he was beaten by fullerton police officers when law enforcement uses such violent force they usually justify it saying that they feared for their safety but for victims' families that explanation doesn't make any sense there are studies that say that it may be safer than ever to be a police officer on the streets

new episode, deadly force only on al jazeera america strove if you are watching this over . >>> at a time number 1 and number 2 cable providers in the u.s. are merging to create a new giant. you are watching this program over a cable. is this bad news, good news, or to be determined? >> "the inside story." hello. i am ray

they would still like to be abuse deadly force.laim in the past 10 years there have been about 6000 confrontations with rock throwers, but there never has been an agent killed by rock throwers. so the use of deadly force seems a bit excessive if agents themselves have never been killed by rocks. if you go to any major law enforcement agency in the country and the u.s., killing or shooting rock throwers using guns to shoot rock throwers would be for been by police agencies across the country. it is interesting border patrol claims it is a necessity for them. >> it is also interesting this is taking place against the backdrop of the tres amigos summit with canadian, mexican, and american leaders. the three north american leaders expected to announce an easing of border controls for corporate executives and at the same time you have this killing of a migrant on the border. john carlos frey? >> it is also interesting the circumstances under which these happen. i am not denying border patrol agents have a dangerous job and they need to

victims of police which audi wonder why officers feel the need to resort to deadly force the venue. i have no justification for using that type of excessive force and ultimately killing him. and since knowing his own words no other options but to be a space to tell ron thomas is still searching for justice after police officers were acquitted in the killing of a son kelly. one of the officers jason's deli is actually try to get his job back. the defense in the case they said that such kelly thomas was was overly that he was he was reacting in a violent way he was a he was a suspect in the street who is who is so uncontrollable. but when you watch the video it doesn't really add up they're still memorial here for kelly thomas more than two years after he was beaten by fullerton police officers went on for spring uses such by force. the easily justify it saying that they feared for their safety. but for victims' families. that explanation doesn't make any sense. their citizens that it may be safer than ever to be a police officer on the streets today. thirty three police officers were