but to deano's point, there is something about what's but to deano's point, _ there is something aboutrelationship, right? i when people are listeningl to podcasts, they feel very involved in the host's life. they feel like they're their friends. - i mean, alistairand rory do this all the time. - i guess they're giving away i parts of their life and people think that he's my mate, l he's in the room with me. it's a much more cosy relationshipj than you have with. but, i mean, what you're really talking about is narrowcasting versus broadcasting. and digital technology has made it possible for just about anyone to get out something into public access, which is actually quite different in a way from radio or linear television, the sort of things that i've been working in. and it seems to me that, you know, yes, more personality has come into newsjournalism, more different people have come in to talking aboutjournalism, and we're seeing a convergence different generations listen to different things. and as i'm listening to this point, clearly listening to alistair's roast his politics pod

deano said we would say if something was a lie. know, on day one of his presidency, we had him saying the crowd for his inauguration was the biggest in us history. it wasn't. that was a lie. but to say he's a liar, well then i'm trying to get inside his head and sort of attribute motive to what he's doing. but i think it's very important that if something is untrue, we say it is untrue. 0k. can ijump in here, ros? of course you can. because i think there's something really important here about that does go back to something adam said about lying and the consequence of the brexit referendum. and without rerunning all of those arguments, there is no doubt in my mind that lies were told. there is no doubt in my mind that borisjohnson became prime minister in part on the back of his success in the brexit referendum, and that borisjohnson has told many lies in his political life as prime minister. they are very rarely called out on the bbc... well... ..or across most of the media. well, you're right. you won't hear the word "liar" on th

deano, good to have you on the programme. that's quite a title to live up to. thanks, ros. yeah, well, it's nice to, nice to talk to you. yeah, it's look, it was a lovely piece and a shock to have a profile in the times. but, you know, ithink what i did at the bbc in terms of launching brexitcast, which was our first hit podcast, and then americast withjon and emily and then the daily newscast. i mean, overthe time i was there at the bbc, they accrued 85 million downloads. so i think what i created at the bbc was successful and has enabled us to launch what we're doing here on the news agents. and just quickly, you're sitting here, you werejust explaining before we came on air, you are just signing off your second episode. give us a 30 second spin through a day producing a news podcast like the news agents. how does it work? well, it's 2a hours. so we were, obviously, with the announcement of the death of gorbachev yesterday evening, straightaway we're thinking about which guests we're going to book for the podcast the following day. we already had this interview with gus o