debbie dingell on our show yesterday, congresswoman debbie dingell, she tells it like it is, keeps it real. at this time in 2016 i remember having a conversation with her saying that -- and she was telling me that secretary clinton was going lose michigan. yesterday on her show she said today no one is winning michigan right now which means it's still a very competitive race. so there are things that vice president harris can do to close the gap, she's going there on tuesday with a focus on, again, the economy, but specifically as it relates to black men and she's going to take questions from folks on the radio across the country. so i definitely think that campaigns are about, you know, infrastructure, having the money to -- and the infrastructure to turn out and get your message and to turn folks out. that is what i'm seeing happening. we don't know how this is going to shake out right up until election day. >> sort of the intensity of the harris campaign has really picked up. former president bill clinton on the road for her this weekend in rural areas including georgia. former president obama back out again later this week and harris and walz themselves camping out in those three blue wall states this weeks. lots of events. maria trees say we just heard steve kornacki give analysis about this race including the latino vote. you have some new polling. please share it with us. >> i think what joe was saying was absolutely right, this is going to be about turnout. the polls are a dead heat. but when voter latino when we conduct polls ours is all about creating programs. i will give you an example. when we saw "the new york times" poll that just came out that was 902 voters basically and they were across -- it was a national poll across the country. we did a bilingual poll of 2,000 voters, only in key battleground states because we need to better understand what is going to help move these individuals to make sure that they vote? one of the things that we found that was really striking is that she is up close to 64% in these key battleground states. the softness of the states that we find, though, were both in nevada and wisconsin. that means that she needs to have a bigger ground game, work more closely with the unions. that's one of the reasons why the united culinary workers came out so quickly with her in nevada just recently. i do think that the difference between what we're seeing in the harris campaign versus the trump campaign is that she is out campaigning, but then she has a constellation of groups also campaigning on her behalf. she has emily's list, she has the unions coming out knocking on doors. so what we're going to see at the end of the day is the turnout. and the latino community with a we keep hearing is an expression of what is she going to do around the economy specifically? abortion is absolutely a number two. and there is a softening among young latino men, but still even among young latino men she is still at 54%. so i would encourage folks to make sure we are talking about the issues that all americans care about right now and that's the economy. that's inflation. an opportunity agenda, that's not breaking through. but when you talk about giving someone a $6,000 tax credit, that breaks through. when you start talking to individuals and specifically about housing and how you want to give them $25,000 for the first home, that breaks through. because interestingly enough the number one issue between 18 to 29 year olds is the cost of rent. the cost of rent of not am i going to move away and move out of the house but cost of rent am i going to be able to balance the budget so i can afford meals at the end of the day. as we go into this piece i would say, again, concur with joe, we do not know, but i do know that when they said there was going to be a red wave back in the midterms we weren't seeing, it just like we saw there wasn't a massive defection in key battleground states. if you were to ask me what should be the democratic concern moving forward, the fact that there is a softening among latino votes, enthusiasm in california, that's a long-term issue. a present issue, how do you get people out to vote right now on the progressive side in the key battleground states that will make all the difference. >> let me ask -- i would like to ask all the panelists and, rev, i want to start with you. there is right now if you look at the polls the difference between kamala harris being up, let's say, two points in these swing states in some of these swing states and being tied right now in almost all of the swing states, or the number of black and hispanic men who are still not in the democratic column and this is something obviously that the harris campaign is working to bring their base home. we saw barack obama on friday night -- or on thursday night talking about this, urging black men to vote for kamala harris. talk about -- talk about right now the fact that she is not faring as well as joe biden or hillary clinton or barack obama or most democrats with black men in 2024. what does she have to do to close the deal on that and bring them home? >> well, i think that we're seeing some course correcting. she came out today with this whole policy on what she would do for black men, talking about putting a million dollars aside for $20,000 allotments to black men that just had an idea that does not have access to capital. talking about educational programs, health programs. this specifically the black men in the absence of donald trump who has no plan. and at the same time -- and i think it's important that she's doing souls to the polls because what she understands about the black community is you can't just go young and forget the older, who are in many cases churchgoers, who are your prime voters. so you can't go one way or another, you have to do it jointly. i think that what they're doing is very smart today by dealing with appealing to the young black men, doing video with that, but also dealing with souls to the polls and the older black prime voter. they must do the same thing in the latino community. you've got to address those young aspiring latino business type men and women, but at the same time deal with the traditional latino who has been the voters and has not felt a lot of this has been addressed to them. all of that while trump is demonizing both blacks and whites. so it's not enough to just talk about how bad he is, you must embrace and advocate on behalf of those that you want to turn out, and i think if they do this as they started today for the next three weeks, the turnout will make the difference. >> and, maria teresa kumar, let me ask you about hispanic men, with the caveat it's just like the polling, i feel like i have to say this, because every four years we hear donald trump is going to win 25%. i had one of donald trump's top campaign people in 2020 say i will bet you any amount of money that donald trump gets 25% of the black vote. i'm like, no. 20%. i go, no, that's not going to happen, either, and i'm not going to take your money, but i hear this every four years. maybe it happens this year, but this is a media narrative, go back and look, this is a media yair testify we keep hearing, black men, hispanic men, they are abandoning the democratic party. this is the year that donald trump gets 20% of the black vote. that's, again, that's what the trump campaign was telling me right before the campaign four years ago, never happened. but what is the issue with hispanic men and black men that there's even that question mark over -- what is it -- not about kamala harris, that's too easy because people say it's because she is a woman, but this is more of a democratic issue and we've seen it in florida, of course, with cuban americans, venezuelan refugees and immigrants and others from certain countries. what does the democratic party need to do not just in the next three weeks, but over the next three or four years to win those votes? >> so, joe, i think that reverend al put it perfectly, it is an economic agenda. when you have everything being equal and you still feel like you are stretched to buy groceries, you want to make sure that the person that is going to be at the white house is addressing your issues and that's one of the reasons why the harris campaign came out with this economic agenda for african americans, but when you look at it, it's basically for all americans. if you talk to the number one purveyors of small businesses in the latino community it's women. and they want to make sure that it's not -- they don't want handouts, they don't want government support, they want to basically say how can i achieve the middle class? how can i have upward mobility? and i do think that this is where the critique of the democratic party is very real. we abandoned a long time ago a lot of the states that are all of a sudden vulnerable and open to a populist agenda that trump prevails in. what the democrats need to get back torques and i think that we saw it very much with the biden agenda and the harris agenda when it came to the ira, to the chips act, it's manufacturing. bringing communities back together by really making sure that we're generating not just, you know, not just capital for local businesses, but also bringing back jobs that are, again, secure, middle class and union led. kamala harris has a unique opportunity to build off of that biden agenda that she was the tiebreaker in, but demonstrate what are we going to do next? that is when you start talking about very specific issues. when i mentioned the $6,000 tax credit, when people learned about that in arizona and nevada that went through the roof. when we mentioned that she was interested in actually providing people $25,000 as a first time home buyer in nevada, where housing constraints are super tight that went through the roof. it's a matter of like how are you going to impact me not nationally, but how are you going to impact me in my pocketbook? if you were to ask what was the major defection of latino men and african american men to trump, it wasn't his cult norms or misogyny or racism. it was economics. all things being equal, that check we made fun of because he signed people thought it was his money not recognizing it was their money. the more we are able to talk about the differentiation that yes you can have a secure country, upper mobility and at the end of the day people can treat you as an american regardless of your shade that is going to be the difference and i believe one of the things we are going to see at kamala harris at the next 23 days out. >> yeah, certainly. only three weeks or so to go to make that adjustment. president and ceo of votolatino maria teresa kumar. thank you so much. >>> as we heard earlier in hallie jackson's report donald trump is prominently featuring his desire for revenge a long time hallmark of his political identity as part of his closing message to prospective voters. let's now bring in sahil kapur. good to see you this morning. your latest reporting is taking a look at trump's escalating rhetoric. it is noteworthy how darker it has gotten just in recent days. tell us more about what you found. >> reporter: that's right, jonathan. this kind of rhetoric has always been somewhere in trump's stump speech, but he's really dialed it up now in his third campaign and especially in the closing stretch to election day. just a few days ago he called his rival kamala harris a criminal when talking about immigration policy. in recent weeks and months he's said a whole host of things should be illegal, should be outlawed including an edit of a "60 minutes" news package. he said criticizing his judges ands justices who he appointed and who rule in alignment with him should be outlawed and should come as penalties and he has also talked about using the military on so-called enemies from within. experts who study this stuff see parallels to authoritarian leaders and this idea that descendant criticism is illegitimate. this is out of the autocratic playbook as autocrats consolidate their power once they are in office. anything that threatens their power or exposes their corruption or releases information harmful to them in any way becomes illegal. she goes on to say that trump s quote, actually rehearing in a sense what he would be doing as head of state which is what orban in hungary does, modi in india has done. she argues that telling the truth any objective inquiry becomes a criminal element that needs to be shut down under this philosophy. here is what gets interesting. at a recent trump rally i went to i spoke to a number of his voters about this and even a number of his own rallygoers are not on board with this idea of retribution and revenge. it riles up some of them but others say he should focus on the economy. one of them told me that his best revenge would be to get elected and improve the economy, not to sink to the level of his critics. this was the view of that voter. and that kind of explains the larger dynamic here, as important as this stuff s it is concerns about the economy, it is issues like immigration that are likely to motivate his voters to continue supporting him, even if they disapprove of this side of him. that's especially true in places like erie county, pennsylvania where economic concerns are likely to carry the day. among harris voters preserving democracy is a huge issue. >> kamala harris is headed back to pennsylvania today, right there in erie county which is where you are, a week long blitz that she will be holding in those blue states. let's zero in on erie county and harris today. what should we expect to hear. >> reporter: kamala harris is rallying in this city of erie, pennsylvania, and this bellwether county that has a knack for predicting which way pennsylvania ultimately goes. an official telling us she had lay out her agenda, a vision for the country which she calls a new way forward and encourage pennsylvanians to vote early and cast their ballot. look at how erie county has voted, 2008 obama won, 2012 obama won, 2016 donald trump won, 2020 biden won. what do they all have in common? they all carried pennsylvania. they all became president. this is one of the bellwether counties in the quintessential bellwether state that both campaigns are focusing heavily on. one person who is going to be there is senator john fetterman, the democrat who carried erie county by about nine points en route to victory in 2022 becoming a senator. he told me, quote, pennsylvania is like a smaller version of america and erie is like a smaller version of pennsylvania. he says he believes erie is the top bellwether county in in commonwealth. he said if you can't sell it in erie it's going to be really difficult to sell that across pennsylvania. we will see how well kamala harris's message sells here in erie and she's also got campaign stops planned later this week in the other so-called blue wall states of michigan and wisconsin. this could be crucial to kamala harris's hopes. she needs these states especially giving polls showing headwinds in georgia and arizona, even nevada looking up for her this time. if she carries these states and wins that one congressional district around omaha and nebraska she's home, 270 electoral votes. >> nbc's sahil kapur, thank you so much. both of his pieces are available to read now at nbcnews.com. it is just -- this is such a fascinating race because so many -- so many of these states are so close. you will see one poll that has kamala harris up by 3 or 4 points in pennsylvania, another one that will have her down a couple of points, a poll that will have her up by one or two in nevada then another down by four points. then north carolina, that's a state that has come into play, big question this year whether north carolina becomes to democrats what georgia was to democrats in 2020. so much riding on these states, on pennsylvania, on michigan, on wisconsin and on north carolina and the sun belt states. almost three weeks to go, the voting of course, early voting, already started. so democracy in action right now. if you are going to make a difference, now is the time to do it. coming up, a new report finds that donald trump is feeling underappreciated by donors and lashing out at some of the wealthiest figures in the republican party. we will get reports on that story next. >>> plus, it was quite a sight yesterday in southern texas. spacex's test flight launch of its starship rocket and then the first catch of its 20-story-tall booster. we will have the details with cnbc's andrew ross sorkin coming up next. ♪ i have type 2 diabetes, but i manage it well ♪ ♪ it's a little pill with a big story to tell ♪ ♪ i take once-daily jardiance ♪ ♪ at each day's staaart ♪ ♪ as time went on, it was easy to seeee ♪ ♪ i'm lowering my a1c ♪ jardiance works 24/7 in your body to flush out some sugar. and for adults with type two diabetes and known heart disease, jardiance can lower the risk of cardiovascular death, too. serious side effects may include ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration that can lead to sudden worsening of kidney function, and genital, yeast, or urinary tract infections. a rare, life threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop jardiance and call your doctor right away. if you have symptoms of this infection, ketoacidosis, or an allergic reaction. you may have an increased risk for lower limb loss. call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of infection in your legs or feet. taking jardiance with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. ♪ jardiance is really swell ♪ ♪ the little pill with a big story to tell ♪ with dexcom g7, managing your diabetes just got easier. so, what's your glucose number right now? 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to make in china. china. meanwhile, "the new york times" is reporting that a frustrated trump has been pressuring big money donors to support his campaign. according to the paper trump lashed out at some of the most sought after and wealthiest figures in the republican party during a private dinner at trump tower a few days ago. let's bring in co-anchor of cnbc's "squawk box" and "new york times" columnist andrew ross sorkin. what you got? >> i think this shouldn't be that surprising to many, you know, if you look at just the fundraising efforts over the last several months, vice president harris has clearly outpaced former president trump's ability to fund raise. that's not an open secret, it's a very open fact of the matter. the question of course is whether that money is going to ultimately not just make its way on to the airwaves but persuade voters one way or the other. i think he's feeling, as you might imagine, that he is being outfund raised, which in fact he is. of course, the question is when you're spending time with donors, typically you don't lash out at them because they are the ones giving you the money, you lash out at maybe those who aren't giving you the money perhaps. i don't know. but i think that that's what that was indicative of. interestingly, you know, at this point harris has almost doubled the fundraising efforts of former president trump. it gets a little more complicated when you start to look at what's called pac money, but on just the -- just the full numbers clearly harris is ahead. again, the question is whether that money is going to change the outcome of this election. >> let's look at the front page of the "wall street journal" and of course, spacex launch and grab yesterday. tell us about it. >> can i tell you something? >> i mean, we can have all sorts of debates about what's happening with politics in this country, we can talk about, you know, whether things are going to hell in a handbasket or be upset about this or that. this is something we can all be, i think, excited about, whether you like elon musk or not, this was a -- just a marvel from a technological perspective. the idea that this remarkably heavy rocket is going to be reused, it's being brought back to earth, not only is it brought back to earth, it is coming into this landing spot almost perfectly and in this case because of how heavy it is, there are these they call them chopsticks that effectively are catching the rocket. it's going to allow this rocket to be reused over and over and over again, that's going to bring the cost down of this stuff. i think a lot of people didn't think it was possible for a very long time, the view was that you would have to have some kind of landing gear on these rockets. elon musk has always had this view that it was too heavy to actually put the landing gear on the rocket itself because it would be too expensive to actually, therefore, put it up into the air and that the way to deal with this was to actually put the landing gear like this, with these sort of -- these sort of massive hands that grab it on the way down and when you just think about sort of innovation, i think it's something to behold. >> yeah, it really is. i mean, and, again, we do look at politics and we look at the problems that we're having in this country right now and the great challenges before us politically, but as i say on the show all the time, economically, if you look at us economically, if you look at our technology, if you look at our military, if you look at our, you know, culturally, our hard power, our soft power, our entrepreneurs, i mean, we -- we just do an incredible job. we deserve a washington that does better. >> cnbc's andrew ross sorkin. >> we do. >> as always, thank you so much. >>> today the harris campaign is launching a new economic plan focused on helping black men. the opportunity agenda for black men includes 1 million small business loans for black male entrepreneurs and a new initiative focused on health issues that disproportionately impact black men. let's bring in right now the chairman of the congressional black caucus congressman steven horsford of nevada, he is a national co-chair for the harris campaign. congressman, thank you so much for being with us. tell us about this plan. >> well, thank you, joe, for having me. it's great to be on. look, what is to fascinating and important about this plan is instead of continuing to talk about black men or talking down to black men, it's time to listen to black men and that is exactly what vice president kamala harris and tim walz have done with this agenda for black men. it is about providing economic opportunity, wealth, health, and prosperity for black america, which will help all of america. it's about providing $25,000 of grants for down payments to help 1 million black homeowners achieve the american dream and close the racial wealth gap. it's about providing $20,000 of forgivable loans to small businesses and entrepreneurs, people who have great ideas but who need help getting that business off -- off the ground and to a good start. and then once that business is operating, providing $50,000 worth of deductions in that first year so that that business can continue to be successful. it also expands into the child tax credit, providing up to $6,000 for families with children. but beyond that it also includes the health of black men by investing in a national health equity initiative to address the inequities of sickle cell, prostate, diabetes, that disproportionately effect black men's health. when we improve the economic conditions of black people we actually improve our economic and health outcomes. that is what the vice president understands because she's been listening to black men throughout her career, but especially as vice president and now as nominee and what i believe will be the 47th president of the united states. >> chairman horsford, this is symone sanders-townsend here. i do think the health initiative specifically is very important, sickle cell for folks who don't know out there disproportionately effects black people, black men specifically. my uncle's son died of sickle cell at a very young age so this is important. you represent nevada's 4th congressional district, you are what the democratic national committee calls a front line member. you are also as chair of the congressional black caucus you were traveling around, literally in detroit yesterday. what are you hearing on the ground from black voters, from black men specifically, and are you concerned, you know, again, we spoke with debbiesengers need to be right, specifically in michigan, and i'm wondering your thoughts having just been on the ground. >> well, thank you, symone. look, black men are the second most dedicated group of black -- of voters, block of voters, for the democratic party and, yes, for kamala harris for president. so i just want to start by acknowledging the fact that black men we vote. we vote because we understand that the issues that matter to us literally are about our freedoms, our rights and our opportunities. we vote for ourselves, our children, our communities, because we understand the need to protect our democracy. we vote because, despite the fact that the system is not always working for us, we understand that we have to show up in order to hold it accountable to us. the vice president, the harris/walz campaign understands that, that is why they are meeting black voters where they are. the vice president launched economic opportunity tours earlier in her career as vice president, earli
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