joining us from san francisco deborah saunders and dana mill bank and with us louise from politico. should the news organizations have refused to sit down with eric holder because he's saying you can't report what is going on in the meets? >> a useful dialogue that had to happen. i don't fault anybody for going or not going. people had to do what they needed to do. i just don't understand the justice department's thinking on this. i mean, we're dealing with a very serious press issue at a time when transparency is essential. why have them off the record when you know they're not going to stay off the record? they're never going to stay off the record. >> the rules were a little relaxed. dana millbank. from the journalist point of view, i don't see what you get out of it if you can sit and get the benefit of the attorney general's thinking and you can't tell your readers. you can't tell your viewers. >> i can confirm megan kelly's reports, those were actual journalists. i believe they were. easy to mistake, but i believe they were. look, i don't think there's anything to fault the jo