dee and, you are in history, the third married couple to ever appear on "in depth" in 25 years. bernadine dorn, rose and milton friedman, now elizabeth borders jack dee and as the third married couple. >> we have no ideology. >> you are somewhere in the middle of those two. what is the best part about working on a book and living with the person, raising a son? with the same person you are writing a book with? >> your spouse can't get mad at you for spending too much time at work. >> what's the worst part about writing a book with the same person? >> it is 24 hours. >> we met in a newsroom. we always worked together even from the beginning of our relationship. it's part of our professional and personal -- never separated them. for us it is natural. >> host: you work simultaneously in many locations. >> that is right. we met first in the washington post newsroom in january 1998, the only good thing that came out of the monica lewinsky bill clinton situation but we have always worked to get her. we followed that, did a stint in moscow as a bureau chief for the washington post. when we came back to washington we had different assignments but whether we worked in the same place or not, i worked at the new yorker, it's part of an ongoing conversation and we feel lucky. we had so many people say to us how can you write a book together? i would say we are so lucky to have this partnership that exists in real-time in all the things we are interested in. >> host: your third book together, kate lewis, is almost accidental. is that a fair way of saying it? you were already in jerusalem in 2016. >> we decided we wanted -- while we were young enough to enjoy it or get something out of it, we made the move in summer of 2016, i was at the new york times and bureau chief can originate -- renovated our apartment but she was going to join us after the election because she was editor of politico at the time but the election changed everything. i remember is that night in jerusalem when the results came in susan texted me and said trump is going to win, second, they don't want you to come back. she was right. >> what did you do with your apartment in jerusalem? >> we turned it over to our success or who got to enjoy it more than we did. >> host: you worked at the new york times and stayed at politico for a while. >> writing a column, doing a podcast but it was supposed to be focused on international affairs but i would say the point here, we've been in that moment for these last 5 or 6 years, the united states is the biggest focal point of global disruption. if you care about foreign policy, i was the editor of foreign policy magazine but this it disruption, this internal crisis in the world's major superpower is the biggest question for anyone who cares about foreign policy, we got to be foreign correspondents in our own country. we had to buy a new house, our house is rented out. even though we were only gone a few weeks from washington, it felt in some ways covering the trump presidency was covering a different city, different world in a way. >> host: when did you start working on kate lewis? was in 2016? >> writing a book is so hard, such an enormous thing. one of the things, there've been a lot of incremental books about the trump presidency during the middle of it. i think our aspiration was to resist doing that and think about what can we do that might be lasting? 5 years from now, or longer, when your kids or grandkids say donald trump was president? what was that like? our goal once we decided to embark on it which we did not do until trump's first impeachment when we thought okay, that is something that will last for history but then of course that was followed by the disruptions of 20/20 and the election year. the concept changed to the fool trump in the white house four years. >> host: elizabeth borders, almost a book and to your book on bill clinton's impeachment. >> that was my first book, there are echoes, it was so different under trump come became so much more magnified. the clinton impeachment put a different light in some ways. we were thinking about and impeachment but didn't start working on it until after it was over. why did you not tell us these things while he was in office? we didn't start working on this book until after he left office, this is a product of 300 interviews in the last 18 months after he left. we tried to put it out and it was worth bearing witness for history. >> the germ of the idea wasn't 24 hours of the beginning of trump's first impeachment, the ukraine scandal and perfect phone call and we were going out to dinner in september 2019 and we ran into lindsey graham a key character in peter's first book on impeachment, that's how lindsey graham came to national attention as one of the republican house managers in bill clinton's senate trial two decades ago and we ran into lindsey graham coming out of the washington steakhouse and he said are you going to write a book about the next impeachment? it was a remarkable demonstration of what was proved to be one of the enduring themes of this book, republicans who privately disdained donald trump while publicly accommodating themselves to him in or even in lindsey graham's case over the top lavishing with praise. graham, for all his public defenses of donald trump turned to us, wanted to prove he was in on the joke, said he is a lying mother f-er. but he is so much fun to hang out with. that stuck with us as we embarked on this project that became kate lewis. >> host: there is a quote from you, jack dee and, the james baker book, you said both peter and i came away reinforced with the idea that individuals do matter in history is not inevitable. i wanted to talk about some of the individuals in kate lewis beginning with lindsey graham. what was his role during the trump administration? >> so few characters are is interesting, he ran against trump in 2016 and was very visceral in saying trump was unfit for office, the most unfit ever, he was a kook, he was dangerous, extremist in all these ways and once trump gets into office, trump start to ruling him giving him access, play golf, has he ever ridden on marine one. look at the view here, fly on air force one with me and he drew graham in. and he loved the access, the ability to call upon his cell phone, no other president had given him that access. it's a fascinating story. it began to draw him away from his mentor, his partner, john mccain, with whom he had been so close, mccain despised trust, thought trump was dangerous and incompe
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