jim. >> i intend to speak in support of defunding obamacare. until i'm no longera able to stand. all across this country, americans are suffering because of obamacare. obamacare isn't working. what might be as intimidating as obamacare. chinese gooseberries actually come from new zealand. some time ago i tweetd a speech that ashton kutcher gave me. number one, as a consumer, i'm a big fan of eating white castle burgers. >> stephen: inspiring, just like the seen in "mr. smith goes to washington" where jimmy stewart gets some bad acid and talks to a coat rack for 12 hours. but, folks, cruz didn't just criticize obamacare. he offered a practical alternative. >> so i want to point out just a few words of wisdom from dwuk dynasty. you put five red necks on a mower it's going to be epic. redneck rule number one-- most things can be fixed with duct tape and extension cords. >> stephen: see, america, you don't need health care. if you have a medical emergency, just go to home depot. this courageous man is fighting to defund obamacare by filibustering a bill that defunds obamacare. and wha

side, not insisting on defunding obamacare, and they're making reasonable provisions and that should be negotiated on rather than being rejected out of hand. >> so you hear senator mccain there spreading blame around to everyone. but at this point, it's the house republicans who seem to have over played their hand. their plan dead in the water, and now the focus will be back to the senate, where we were 24 hours ago basically, we'll go back to the plan shaping up. and we'll go to back to reid and mcconnell. >> let me see if i can get it straight, the republicans were going to introduce their own bill in the house, but it wasn't conservative enough, and that's not going to happen, is that right? >> that's right, the house republicans said that deal is not conservative enough, let's cook up our own. but including the heritage foundation. they mark up bills and they said don't vote for it, it's not conservative enough, and it doesn't go far enough to defund obamacare and other things. we heard obamacare with republicans, and it seems that they're doing things over again. but the house r

martha: well obviously they want to defund obamacare. they tried 38 times. they trade variation on a theme. >> they later shifted, after that fell flat, then they shifted to the mandate issue. martha: we're going to get into this more later. the bottom line there is a lot of people in this country who think we need to do something to have greater fiscal stability in the long-term. i think that is something that many americans feel is not being answered by either side in this debate. how do you create greater financial stability in these deal-making moments over the long term. that is what i think people have become so frustrated with washington about. >> i agree. martha: i will have to leave it there. kirsten, brad, thank you very much. >> thank you. martha: see you guys next time. bill: 22 before the hour. frightening scene now, when a drawbridge opens leaving a woman dapping link. ask yourself, is this real? some are calling it a whole pr stunt. we'll look at it a bit closer in a moment. martha: new serious questions now about the woman at the center of th

when they said we will close down government unless you defund obamacare. let the people see the foe paws. -- foe paws, the failure of obamacare. not going to get repeal. show how bad it is. instead you covered it up by ted cruz taking to the floor and we're going to close it down. what did you accomplish? and then to have the nation held hostage this way and to threaten, the, not going forward to meet our obligations in the next week? that's terrible. martha: you know, what i'm hearing there is, almost is no politics anymore in terms of what used to happen back in '95 and '96 where both sides, you know, there was more come rod dry. they would get together. they wanted to govern essentially. they weren't perfect. nobody is perfect but at least, the wheels of the machine were moving. >> we could talk together. i could talk to senator biden. we came from different perspectives. martha: where is he in this whole picture do you think? >> i think he is probably urging behind the scenes that there be a compromise, that we see to it that the debt limit is one that

and nothing less despite the government now being shut down there's a lawmakers who want to defund obamacare are still going to have leverage because in a few weeks the united states hits its debt limit deadline and there too these lawmakers are saying they'll only raise the debt limit if obamacare is de lay or or defunded and the president has said it repeatedly that he won't negotiate over this and if the government is shut down for another few weeks until the debt limit we're looking at tens of billion dollars in economic consequences so that's where we stand right now in this second full day of a government shutdown right and how is this deadlock affecting all general american people that. well there were a lot of predictions about what a government shutdown would look like but as actually happens we're learning more and more about what it actually looks like one of the agencies affected by the shutdown is the national institutes of health and it announced today that they can no longer add any new patients to its lifesaving cancer clinical trials there about two hundred cancer patients i

. >> carl rove called out the leaders of the movement to defund obamacare on thursday. cording to rove, he said the tea party republicans acted as if more moderate republicans were in effect the enemy. he said they alienated colleagues who disagreed by insisting their obamacare supporters and the defunders' outside allies raise the threat of primary challenges. they became content to sit in judgment of plans offered by the house leadership turning thumbs down on anything not in conformity with the now discredited tactic to defund obamacare. i assume you agree with rove? >> why would freedom works, the things that they belief, why are they working so hard to accomplish one goal, and that's elect more democrats around the country? that's all they're going to do. when you look at today when they're going out today, groups like, you know, the tea party people down in mississippi are going after a that had cochrane who has been a solid conservative republican out of mississippi. he's not conservative enough. it's outrageous. what tear doing is they're going to cost -- they ha

>> defund obamacare. the g.o.p. is trying to save the american people from a disaster of a health care plan. we don't have joy in the shutdown. >> reporter: can you just give us back our government and when you do include obamacare because it's the law. >> it is law but it's not good law. it's unconstitutional. it's unconstitutional. >> reporter: even though the supreme court deemed it constitutional. >> the supreme court deemed it constitutional but it had to go to the supreme court to do so. and they still don't know what is in the bill. >> reporter: the supreme court didn't read the bill? i feel the same way. can we stop this whole interview, please. it's just a vicious circle. you dig your heels in. you say something stupid. >> it's a stupid law. >> reporter: and i give a generically witty response like yes, affordable health care for millions of unemployed people is stupid. and then these dummies laugh. but where does it end? >> it ends with defunding obamacare. >> reporter: (bleep). i'm done. i hate this job.

"defunding"... obamacare..../. but... as... craig boswell explains.../ there's... a...uch rger issue... looming, ... ((animation)) with the government shutdown now heading toward a second week, the battle to reopen it is becoming more complicated.. it's not just delaying or defunding obamacare, it's also now about raising the nation's borrowing limit. lee says: "maybe wre forced to tie it all tgethe. i don't necessarily think at's neceriy ideal, but perhaps it is where we are." in 10-days - october 17th - if the government does increase the debt ceiling, the united states can't borrow money and would soon be unable pay all of its bills. lew says: "what happens if you don't pay millions of people on social curi? what hapns you don't pay hospitals and health care providers across the country? the consequences are immediate, and they're very bad. congress needs to act." house speaker john ehner ruled out a clean bill to raise the nation's borrowing limit. in other words republicans want concessions from democrats.. boehner says: "this isn't some damn game." heading into th

defund it. he said don't worry. send it to the senate, harry reid will back down, the president will back down, the government will stay open and obamacare will be defunded. now we have a government shutdown and obamacare is stronger than ever. to me, what happened in the house was you had 40 or 50 republicans who threatened to basically bring down the house unless john boehner voted to shut down the government and defund obamacare. ted cruz was going to take care of it. it was done based on what he said. he went to the senate and basically he spoke for 21 hours, he read dr. seuss and that was it. he couldn't get it done. then he said we should keep fighting in the house. also we find that senator cruz is building mailing lists so they can get campaign funds. it would be great if it was only a republican fight, but the fact is the government shut down and there is no immediate strategy to get out of this. now we have coming up next week on the 17th the debt ceiling, which would really be a disaster if that goes. i am very critical of republicans. having said that, president obama is the president of the united states. he's president of t

first it was getting, defunding obamacare. then it was defunding it for a year. or delaying it for a area. all of it for a year. then it was delaying the individual mandate. and now that's where things ended up. you see they ratchet it back and back and back each time which makes me think, they are not gaining political strength or momentum. they are losing it. >> that's very true. as you see speaker boehner ratcheting up his offers time after time after time, you see resistance within the house gop to deal with the reality of divided government. if democrats control the senate and the white house, as much as they want to defunneled obamacare, the opportunities to do that are very small at this time. but there is a reluctance to accept that reality in the gop so boehner is almost forced into this position to go to conference and hope for the best. >> it has been a fascinating day in the house, the republican caucus. most of what i know, i know from reading you and your why bureau members reporting. are folks in the caucus walking off capitol hill, all right, we'r

think this was worth the fight who didn't think it was worth shutting down the government to defund obamacare would join with democrats defeat whatever this where there were there boating on no this new spending resolution that again delays obamacare if they were to join together to defeat it we could have seen a government shutdown averted but they didn't get the votes in the republican moderate republicans decided not to rebel against their own caucus so they got rank and file behind john boehner and now as you mentioned we're in the pro they're in the process of passing another continuing resolution bill the deal is obamacare which was just defeated in the senate and they're going to ping pong it right back to the seven here we have less than four hours the senate is not going to accept this we're headed for a government shutdown that's unfortunate and as you say it just keeps. going back and forth around and around the little carousel of government shutdown goes but how long do you anticipate this government shutdown lasting or is there any indication that's a good question i mean when th

his goal -- let's defund obamacare. what happened? his side ended up shutting down the government and putting us now within 36 hours of defaulting on our national debt for the first time in history. over the issue of defunding obamacare. haven't heard that recently, have a you? they stopped talking about it. because something's happened. over 12 million people are now going on the internet trying to find whether they can get eligible for an insurance policy, health insurance policy. the pop layerity of -- the popularity of obamacare has gone up as the republicans have criticized because there are an awful lot of people out there who don't have health insurance or they have health insurance they can't aformed. oh, i'm not going to make -- can't afford. oh, i'm not going to make excuses for the problems with the computer and the internet as the program kicks off. it better improve and it will. but it shows you when you're overwhelmed with people who want health insurance, what happens? the system broke down. well, we've got to get bette

you could see -- you know, a lot of republicans who have been against this idea of trying to defund obamacare. they say if obamacare is such a disaster, it will collapse under its own weight. the republicans who are cackling gleefully at the problems with this initial rollout, particularly on the federal level has been something of a disaster. we don't know of a single person to what is successfully gotten insurance there. >> one thing i think is important to point out. when you talk about the popularity or lack of it or obamacare in the united states, you have to talk about which america. i looked at nbc-"wall street journal" polls on this by race. obamacare, by 2-1, whites say it's a bad idea. by 3-1, african-americans say it's a good idea. hispanics like it as well so you have a big divide between people who think they may be paying for something that is not going to benefit them and people who think it is going to benefit them and it's no accident that the party whose base is dominated by white voters is the one waging this fight. gwen: "the new york times" had an interesting piece that s

we will not be able to defund obamacare. we will not be able to delay the individual mandate. we are now down to the fallback positions. let's make sure congressmen have to pay as much for their health care. secondly, maybe the democrats would agree to repeal a tax being imposed on medical devices to help pay for obamacare. which would add to the deficit. those are the only two things that are realistic on the republican wish list. i am not sure they are very realistic. >> an opportunity to put obamacare on trial. the irony is we have had this rollout in the past week that has had a lot of glitches and, frankly, the shutdown has overshadowed what would have been a lot more stories about the legitimate problems with obamacare. there are a lot of legitimate problems with obamacare. just not the ones the republicans are talking about. >> let's talk politics. he accused the democrats are taking the political view in their approach of this. what are the politics of the republicans about what is happening? >> a lot of smart republicans warned their own party that this was a politica

for the second time said conservatives should not approve a continuing resolution unless it defunds obamacare this includes obamacare is unworkable exchanges unsustainable medicaid expansion and attack on life and religious liberty they laid this thing out six weeks after president obama was sworn into office and they then and they followed it these these tea partiers they followed it all the way to the end your thoughts on that strategy. well i mean this strategy to some degree if you think about it what is it that at the end of all this what is it that they want to accomplish here they really didn't accomplish really anything the fact is that before a person you know is able to make a claim to obamacare the i.r.s. has a right to go in and double check i mean that's really kind of a meaningless kind of thing that they accomplish but but what i worry about more tom is let's assume this never took place with the discussion before this took place was what are the democrats going to give up and i have not lost focus on that i'd call it a pit bull mentality or not i've not lost focus on the idea

the idea of defunding obamacare and attacking obamacare at every turn makes sense to me, pointing out its flaws. the idea that we'll get the president oh give up on his signature issue, if we shut the government down, i didn't think you could get there from here. it's a tactical decision i didn't support. trust me. over time obamacare will fall of its own weight because it is a bad law and the public, over time, will tell democrats to sit down and start over. >> what time do you ex expect the vote to take place? >> it will be at 9:15. stay tuned to you. you may want a box in the corner of the screen. we are headed to the senate floor to vote. we are voting for it. responsible democrats ought to join us in voting to give a one-year ex tension on the individual mandate and they ought to get rid of the special deal for members of congress and the white house and staff. >> amen. sean, watch this oklahoma lawsuit. there is a lawsuit coming out of oklahoma that's clever . under the law if the states don't set up exchanges the federal government is not allowed to do so. a lot of states haven

happening is that republicans in congress are engaging in unprecedented extremist tactics to defund obamacare do you see one side more to blame than the other in this. i see the republicans more to blame because it already passed obama already stood on it for reelection and the people reelected him now having said that though i still dislike both parties and urged people in light of this shutdown vote i'm all out of office the only thing is don't vote in democrats and republicans when you replace them let's clean house this is an opportunity for america to truly stand up and clean our own house sada these democrats and republicans that allegedly want to run our country if you were president ventura at the time and you were dealing with this sort of congressional dysfunction air how would you handle it well it's difficult i faced that when i was governor of minnesota because i was independent and i had a republican controlled house and a democratic controlled senate. and the way it worked for me for three years whichever side i sided with prevailed until my last year that's when they teamed up

defunding obamacare was a hopeless cause if you really you'd get him to defund obamacare. so a lot of what was going on up different things -- fire your base, perhaps set off a for president and that's what's frustrating and also confusing the american people because we're really talking about two different things. gwen: ideologies for process. crusaders versus legislators. >> it has shown the energy in the republican party still on one side which we knew but going into a midterm frighteningr it's a proposition, any republican afraid of a primary challenge. gwen: thank you, everybody. before we go don't, we wanted to take a few minutes to passing of the former house speaker, tom foley, for 30ed in washington years until he was defeated in the republican house sweep of 1994. many of us at the table covered tom foley during that time. what kind of leader was he, jackie? >> he wasn't the best speaker. but he was a great member and he was truly well respected, as you're seeing in the tributes to him tonight. we call a man of the house, a true institutionalist who put the house

and if he does not defund obamacare, we leave the whole thing shut down."upon a time when i was a young man working on capitol hill, it was commonplace that when a bill became law, everybody was unhappy with it. but you didn't bring down the government just because it wasn't perfect. you argue and fight and vote and thth, due process having been at least raggedly served, on to the next fight. that was a long time ago. long before the tea party minority, armed with he sums of secret money from rich donors, sucked the last bit of soul from the grand old party of abraham lincoln. they became delusional. then rabid. like this -- >> if obamacare is ever implemented and enforced, we will never recover from it. it is an unconstitutional takings of god-given american liberty. >> that's false, of course. just like those right-wing talking points that keep grinding through the propaganda mills of fox news -- >> thanks to obamacare, doctors will be forced to ask patients about their sex life, even if it has nothing to do with the medical treatment that they are seekin

out what their next step forward is now that the senate has again rejected their attempts to defund obamacare and curiously budget chairman paul ryan said earlier today that he thinks that ultimately and he's a republican said ultimately the debt limit a few weeks from now is going to be the thing that brings both parties together and comes up with a deal of course the government being shut down for another two weeks until the debt limit could have enormous economic consequences moving forward while you are in washington d.c. what are the effects of the shutdown now in these very early stages. well as you mentioned about eight hundred thousand federal employees are not receiving paychecks right now and of course a bulk of them are here in d.c. as are a bulk of the museums and parks and federal parks that are all closed down and of course this is going to continue to have economic benefit are consequences it's not just people with lost wages those people aren't spending money taurus aren't going to museums they're not going to parks businesses are cutting back if we go back to one thousand nin

just when you thought republicans couldn't be any more delusional they start comparing their defund obamacare efforts to the passengers on flight ninety three you know the ones who stopped the nine eleven terrorists from killing more americans seriously no joke more on that with media tommy christopher in just a bit. you need to know this the inevitable is now reality the government is in all likelihood shutting down right now republicans in the house of representatives are busy working on a bill to keep the government open ass tonight that forces the delay of the obamacare individual health insurance mandate by a year and scraps health care subsidies. lawmakers and their staffs if the house approves that bill there is little chance that the senate will do so in the five hours before the midnight deadline tonight's events on capitol hill and played out almost by script earlier on in the afternoon the senate rejected by a margin of fifty four to forty six the funny bill of the house approved over the weekend that bill would have funded the government through december in exchange for delaying o

the house republicans majority won't support sending a bill unless it delays or defunds obamacare. president obama insists the affordable care act will go on. >> they've shut down a whole bunch of parts of the government but the affordable care act is still open for business. >> earlier house bills contained amendments diluting the affordable care act. >> reporter: yesterday was the first day people could register for health insurance under the affordable care act and it was a bit bumpy. the volume of internet users was apparently too much with many people experiencing error messages and other glitches on the program's website. now, going back to the government shutdown, economists estimate that the u.s. economy is losing $300 million each day the government remains closed. reporting live in the newsroom, cate caugiran, kpix 5. >> despite the loss of revenue the markets are not reacting neglect till to the shutdown. they were up yesterday 62 points. the asian markets mixed overnight. we'll see what happens. >>> it's much day and so far it's a typical commute. our usual slow spots a

well over forty times the republicans have brought to the floor of congress the the desire to defund obamacare and they've lost well over forty times and they're still trying to attach it to the budget it's unrelated items to the budget should not be attached to the budget paul ryan hinted here in the house republicans may take this fight all the way to the debt limit deadline arguing that that is what will ultimately bring both parties together what's your response to this tactic. i think it's terrible and i think it's not being a responsible and it is a totally manufactured self-inflicted wound to our economy our economy still fragile and for them to play around with our economy is just plain wrong and devastating to to the economic growth we should be focusing on the latest news coming out of the house is that the number of republicans calling for a clean spending bill has jumped eighteen meaning the house now has the votes if you include democrats to pass a clean spending bill what sort of outreach are democrats doing to these more moderate republican members to put pressure on speaker joh

it is all about defunding obamacare, knowing that you will not get the defunding of obamacare, but that line in the sand, and then you compromise to get whatever you can. that was the strategy. lou: it looks to me like they fumbled their way into a position. they started with repeal obamacare. and they got to defund obamacare then they stumbled into, there is an equity issue year. let's make certain the individual mandate is put on the same basis as the business mandate. deferred for one year. they then moved to the issue of subsidies or the white house staff and the president and the senators and congressmen and their staff. that was a winning issue. it evaporated with their treatment and decision. >> that was because particularly in the sate, some senators spend all of their time trashing the idea and trashing the senator rather than getting on message and moving as a united army to fight this fire. and then when it started, when the fire started they shifted the message away from obamacare to budget issues. it is unfortunate that they did that. hopefully they have learned their lesso