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deirdre bosa rounds things out for us as well. s been on this story from the beginning and way ahead of the pack. deirdre, welcome to you as well. wamsi let's start with you. let's talk some apple and kind of get that out of the way. you like what's going on with the stock here? look, the revenue has barely budged in two years. >> yeah. >> kelly. >> thanks for having me. look, when. >> you look at apple. >> i think the three key things. >> that you learned coming out of this earnings season. >> was the. >> fact that. >> one. >> apple intelligence. is starting to move the needle. >> it's barely. >> but it's still. >> starting to move the. >> needle on. >> on upgrades. >> the second. >> thing is that. >> the install. >> base of devices. >> has reached a. >> record now of 2.35 billion units. i mean, that's a massive number, which they're going to monetize on top using services and additional add on products. and the last thing is gross margins, right. like you just had a stupendous quarter of gross margins. and embedded within their g

deirdre bosa. >>> coming up, natural gas prices soared 40% since the election, around a two-year highowhere as near as high during the energy crisis two years ago. global vice chair suggests the lmg boom could rival the chip boom in terms of size. how should investors position? no one guessed the mystery chart. it's up 25% since the election. and it's a name serving nearly every aspect of the lng process. 'lspk thheeoexwel eawi t c nt. do you have a life insurance policy you no longer need? now you can sell your policy - even a term policy - for an immediate cash payment. call coventry direct to learn more. we thought we had planned carefully for our retirement. but we quickly realized we needed a way to supplement our income. our friend sold their policy to help pay their medical bills, and that got me thinking. maybe selling our policy could help with our retirement. i'm skeptical, so i did some research and called coventry direct. they explained life insurance is a valuable asset that can be sold. we learned we could sell all of our policy, or keep part of it with no future payment

us now to discuss in today's tech jack heyman capital management's kyle bass with our very own deirdre bosairdre kick things off. >> hey kyle thanks so much for being with us now. many leaders in silicon valley and tech who i know you talked to also they actually see deep three deep seeks breakthrough as a positive development because it's open source because it advances ai as a whole. so where do you disagree and why do you see it as a threat? >> well, i. >> mean, if you look at what china has done with tiktok. >> what they're doing. >> with deep. >> sea. >> i. mean this $6 billion number. >> and this. young man. in china saying that he created this. >> model with it. >> i mean, it it has not been audited. china lies all the time. it's likely this is a lie. i mean, if you look at china's. own press release, they just recently said that china unveiled a. >> trillion won. >> $137 billion worth of. stimulus to. stimulate chinese ai investment this year. >> so this. >> $6 million number is dubious at best. it's most likely a lie. >> and it's. because they're trying. >> to use economic statecra

deirdre bosa has more in today's tech check. >> deirdre kelly i feel a little bit like a broken recordfrom chinese ai players has been unrelenting. bytedance, as you mentioned, now claims that its model duo bo 1.5 pro outperforms openai's latest reasoning model products. and just days before you mentioned this, an open source model out of chinese ai lab deep seek was released that rivals openai's one on several third party performance benchmarks. but those two have something else besides performance in common that makes it starkly different than our american ones. and that is cost. they were many times cheaper to build and are many times cheaper to access, so developers are really interested in these models. big american players too at davos are taking note. >> we should take. >> the development out of china very, very seriously. >> what we found is that deep seek, which is the leading chinese ai lab, their model is actually the top performing or roughly on par with the best american models. >> if the united states. >> can't lead in this technology, we're going to be in. >> a very. >>

i appreciate you all joining us today, bradley tusk, tavis mccourt, raymond james, our deirdre bosa, of course. and remember, you can watch deirdre's full deep dive into deep sea and china's ai breakthrough by scanning that qr code on your screen. or go to cnbc.com slash t c takes. we said she was all over it. let's get the latest on the hack now which is giving cybersecurity stocks a bump today. my next guest warned about this when he was on the show two weeks ago. says data protection is crucial now because data leaks are used to train these ai models in china and elsewhere. ivan cerini is ceo of ferret, a web security monitoring platform. ivan, let's start with what we know about deep sea hack today. look there. now i'm hearing reports they're restricting signups only to mobile users in china. what's going on? >> yeah, thanks. >> for asking. that's a great question. >> i would say, first of. >> all, we need to wait until the actual. information gets gets public about what actually happened. was it a hack? was it a breach or was it a massive surge of users at the on the deep six web

let's first bring in our deirdre bosa with the very latest on the ground out in silicon valley. what are you hearing? today i can only imagine. >> d so scott, i think consensus is that yes, the game has changed. but does that change the investment thesis? maybe. maybe not. wall street and silicon valley alike are still trying to digest what this new phase in building ai foundational models, ai, software companies, applications, what this means going forward? consensus seems to be that more ai equals more ai. this is going to be a good thing. it's just like, you know, when we got electricity, we didn't use less light bulbs. so more is going to beget more. and that will be positive for the hyperscalers, for the foundational models, the public ones, at least the big tech, they're diversified. they have ways of distributing these use cases, which now the focus is on. so they're likely going to be okay. are they going to be spending the same amount tens of billions of dollars in capex? that's an open question. and that's certainly going to be top in mind as we go through earnings sea

deirdre bosa in techcheck today. so james chuckmuck over to you then.o you pick up microsoft down 6%. do you pick up apple ahead of earnings. what are your thoughts here. >> for microsoft for apple also we're we're there in both those names. but we are underweight relative to the index by a sizable margin by less than half. you know we are you know downward biased on both of them over the very short term. but over the longer term, i think this deep seated news is actually incrementally positive for both names. so on any pullbacks we take advantage. but we're certainly not looking to close anything up into tonight. >> what about amazon. >> amazon. you know as you know i like that stock for a long time. but it has had a tremendous run. so right now you know we're not increasing the size of our position. we have been taking gains trimming the position as the stock has risen. but you know there are questions about the cloud growth. so you know, the risk reward we find more attractive than other names. >> and you're not even it seems like your top ideas righ

. >> out to deirdre bosa with more on this rapidly shifting race. tentially from the you know from washington is a reminder that where the rubber. meets the road here may. >> be in. >> exactly how. >> much and to. >> what extent the government constrains nvidia from trying to do further business in china. >> yeah, i don't know the details. >> of what they're going to do. >> differently. >> but it should be. >> different because. >> the. previous export controls. >> not only were. >> they useful, they backfired. >> they essentially led to deep sea. >> and all of this just fits into this overarching theme. >> welcome to the ai. >> race post deep sea. this is a breakthrough so significant. >> it redraws. >> the battle lines and. >> it makes. the winners. >> of. >> the previous era. >> openai and. microsoft makes. >> them look like. >> sore losers. accusing deep tech of using open. ai inputs. that is the kettle. calling the pot black because just like openai. >> trained chatgpt. on internet data. >> deep sea trained its model on updated. >> we think like

deirdre bosa. what did we learn? >> tiktok argued that the real law is the speech itself. government said america's national security is at stake. here is what really matters. that january 19th deadline, that would force a sale or ban of tiktok. that stands as of now. but conservative justice samuel alito, did issue the possibility of the stay, putting the law on hold, as they decide how to proceed. that's expected to be fairly swift. maybe as soon as next week. but remember, if that ban takes place, january 19th. that all said, though, kelly, one could argue, it ultimately may not matter which way it goes. chinese companies have proven incredibly resourceful, and users, incredibly resistant to workaround. chinese users simply used vpns, which there were many of them, to access them anyways. american users will also find a way. there is also the question of how effective other restrictions on china have been. this morning, wooerp talking about the semi export ban. and how they backfire. making chinese companies more resourceful, more innovative, rather than hurting their p

deirdre bosa protect check. >>> coming up, crude oil hitting its highest level since august, quietlynear $80 a barrel and this is with the gaza cease-fire today. my next guest sees plenty of opportunity in the energy space, especially if the trump administration's tariffs on canadian oil go into effect. he will join us next to make his case. >>> as we head to break, look at the quantum computing stocks rallying again today. microsoft has declared that 2025 is the year to become quantum ready. this group has been under pressure since last week when nvidia said we are years away from useful quantum computers but names like ionq and trend 18 are still up four fold in the last fr oumonths. we are back, after this. do you have a life insurance policy you no longer need? now you can sell your policy - even a term policy - for an immediate cash payment. call coventry direct to learn more. we thought we had planned carefully for our retirement. but we quickly realized we needed a way to supplement our income. our friend sold their policy to help pay their medical bills, and that got me think

deirdre bosa out west today. >>> american airlines shares have nearly doubled off their recent low fromsummer. around their highest level in over a year and a half. that was our mystery chart earlier this hour. now jeffries is upgrading the name calling the most mismodelled airline. the analyst behind that call joins us to make her case and weigh in on the winter weather wreaking havoc on flights across the country. we're back after this. after last month's massive solar flare added a 25th hour to the day, businesses are wondering "what should we do with it?" i'm thinking company wide power nap. [ employees snoring ] anything can change the world of work. from hr to payroll, adp designs for the next anything. ichi, ni, san, shi... (1,2,3,4 . . ) ruri never thought she would live out her dream. then one day, she did. you were made to chase your passions. we were made to put them in a package. >>> welcome back to "the exchange." i'm brian sullivan with your cnbc news update. the pentagon reaching a settlement of more than 35,000 gay and lesbian members discharged based on their sexual ori

and i think there was a wonderful piece that that i'd like to link to that deirdre bosa just did on deep. but like the open source performance is right there now. and i don't think you can put the cat back in the bag. >> who do you think is going to win this this whole arms race if there needs to be, you know, one winner. but if we're going to give a gold medal and you're going to have to have a medal stand, who do you think stands to be the best? is it openai? is it what what you know, google is doing gemini meta llama perplexity. how do you see it? >> i mean, i think certainly to date it's been openai. and keep in mind these companies are doing something that's also unprecedented on the liquidity side. they're giving employees that are two years in secondary stock. so they're winning already. they're putting cash in their pockets. right. and so in some ways they've already won from that standpoint. if you look back at the internet, something really interesting happened. you had at the beginning of the internet. you had every startup developing on sun and oracle. it was the highest perf

deirdre bosa has done great reporting on it since then as well. it was the 20th. it was the inauguration day when we got these latest numbers. so even though we heard this was on the 20th and sort of built as that last week went along, you had the stargate announcement of $100 billion, maybe as much as $500 billion. you had zuckerberg on friday say 60 to $65 billion in capex. you had nadella reiterate 80 billion for azure. so the numbers, to the extent that these leaders in technology were at least somewhat aware of this, did not get impacted. and you've got a lot of panic this morning and over last night. first i heard about jevons paradox was last night i have to say. and now good luck. >> good luck escaping it. >> today, 12 hours since then i've heard about it 17 times. i was like, whoo! last night i'm like, who's jevon? come on, man. and it's like, well, this economist back in 1865, in great britain talked about the coal industry and said, hey, listen, if you have an improving efficiency with a natural resource. >> occam's razor. >> you actually get a lot more

let's start with our own deirdre bosa. she's been out front on this story from the get go. why are we seeing what we are seeing d. >> because the. >> whole story the whole narrative has changed and it happened so quickly. i mean, you could argue that it went back earlier than deep sync. but really over the last few months, there's been this acceptance in the ai world that we sort of scaling laws. we hit a wall in terms of data, and we went from the pre-training phase to the inference phase. and that's what allowed something like deep sea to even happen. companies, startups, ai labs in china, they can get right to the frontier, get all the technological developments and advancements that openai and. others have done and build on top of that. so this basically tells us or makes us at least question, do we need the same kind of infrastructure? do we need the same number of gpus to create the most advanced models? that's what deep sea told us. and not just deep sea, by the way. bytedance as well. last week, stanford. berkeley researchers did something similar as well. so this e

our deirdre bosa joins us now for more on how a company few people had heard of before today. and i'm still trying to make sure i don't say wrong. could have such a big impact on the market and how much merit there is to these claims. dee, we all spent a lot of time this weekend and most of today trying to think it through. tell us what we've learned. >> okay, so i pocalypse not so sure about that, but without a doubt this is a monumental shift in ai. what's real is its performance. we don't have to trust deep seek or the chinese on that. this is an open source model, so we can see inside of it and compare it using third party benchmarks. it is just as impressive as people say it is. not only was it cheaper and quicker to build, but it's also cheaper and more efficient to run. so developers are adopting it en masse, as well as american consumers pushing it to the top of the app store charts and dethroning chatgpt. now it hit the markets hard today because it raises a ton of questions about the way american ai has developed open ai, anthropic, google, etc. have raised and spent

deirdre bosa is at one market in san francisco today. this hour.sterday's tech rout. did yesterday sell off provide an entry point or maybe a larger warning about down side risk? we'll talk about it then. >> republican lawmakers. >> and. >> president trump. >> appear divided. >> on the us. >> response to deep. >> sea and what it all means for national security. boxeo erin

we talked about this on power lunch on friday through deirdre bosa our colleague. great job by her. other than that everyone's i don't want to use the word panicking. it's the wrong term guys. but let's be clear. almost nobody knows really anything about this. and so what they've done is they've sort of freaked out. let's sell everything, read what we can, and then figure out where it's going to go, because we don't want to be the last ones holding the bag. when a power company, becky loses 29% of its value, as vistra did yesterday, the market is saying, we don't know what's going to happen with power demand, but we think it's going down a lot. that's the only question that matters. >> will it? >> but do they think it's going from 80 to 60 or 80 to 0? i mean, that's a big difference too. and i think you have to layer in the idea that permitting might get easier under the trump administration than it has been in the past. i mean, there's just a lot of questions. and it looks it looks like this was a sell. now ask questions later and we'll try and figure it out. >> yeah. and i think t