. >> well, del bianco, who works in the administration now, asked for the investigation. i think he was trying to show how well the dnc operation worked, and how poorly the pope visit was taken without the expenditures and without those same issues. and i think that's what they're trying to highlight. >> and then all this other stuff sort of just comes out of nowhere, and they're like, "oh." >> that's right. yep. to shoes at macy's. [ laughs ] >> $80 shoes. back when nutter was mayor, i don't really remember there being a -- and maybe i'm wrong, but there being butkovitz and him butting heads. because he served as city controller throughout his administration. >> well, they did a little bit on the school system. on the school board and the src. there was a continual fight with regard to -- >> so, is this sort of the pot boiling over situation, or...? >> i don't know about that. butkovitz is kind of an outlier, though, among democrats. the other day, in an interview, he was talking about the fact there's always someone that runs against him. jonathan saidel, nothing. >> mm