they relied on deloitte. >> david, this is herb. on this, deloitte has to be on the hook somewhere along the line on why they didn't catch it. i kate haight to keep harping on the same old thing. they didn't catch it yet others out there who caught it prior to this. something -- something's off and somebody isn't telling the truth. >> get back to the stock, because i want to continue on mandy's point with bryan white. you mentioned it, you answered mandy's question. in ten years, had phone hacking, board leaks, infighting, ceos coming and going, short-lived ceo ouz, the palm dahl deal, remember that one, i know it's not meg, she is knew. we made changes in 2011. let's make further changes. i think meg will be a good ceo. she is in a tough position now and should be thankful to have her. >> wouldn't want to be in her shoes today. thank you very much for all of your comments. the meantime, huge news day just keeps on coming. market, not liking the two big stories, markets punishing hp, ben bernanke as well. >>> later on, from bad to w

if you're deloitte, how nervous are you today?itte has to be both nervous and girding up for a long battle. i think this is when you have a right to this magnitude, people pay attention and deloitte is going to come under real scrutiny for its certification of financial statements and its failure to find any indications of this kind of fraudulent behavior. >> are you beginning to detect similarities to arthur anderson? i think there's a huge difference. the anderson situation involved a long string of cases the government has been appropriately chastised by itself and by others for allowing the firm of arthur anderson to disintegrate. there are penalties and steps that need to be taken, but the last thing the global economy needs now is one less big major accounting firm. >> harvey, if i'm a shareholder at home of hewlett-packard, i'm pretty mad now and looking to the broad and board may not have t resources to detect fraud if it is fraud. at the same time, i know that a lot of blogs out there and notes short sellers raised the fl

and kpmg who hp hired to talk to deloitte about these issues as well as talking to mike lynch and theyran it to ground and said there's no there there. obviously, we know different now. >> of course, deloitte was the accounting name signed off on autonomy's numbers. mike lynch, dr. michael lynch was one of the founder of the company and running it until he was sum marly dismissed by whitman, because add harder time making the numbers, which he did when they weren't actually autonomy but owned by hp. as for his part, mr. lynch said the former management team of autonomy was shocked to see the statement today, flatly rejects these allegation, they are false it took ten years build autonomy's industry-leading technology. stood see,has been mismanaged, he claimed, since the acquisition was done by hp. for all of that meg whitman says they still like the end product. >> we still like the business. we like the technology. we think it's going to be an important part of hp's -- hp software's growth strategy, but it is not as valuable as we had believed it to be because revenues are lower, grow

again we also heard from deloitte, the accounting firm that signed off on autonomy's financials. the company categorically denying any knowledge of any accounting improprieties or representations in autonomy's financial statements. they say they conducted audit work with full compliance of regulation and professional standards. thanks very much for that, of course. >> thanks very much. >>> there's a lot of finger pointsing, right? going on with regard to this story. >> great deal of finger pointing. we want to bring in nbc's "vanity fair" contributing editor, by the way, a lady that also knows a thing or two about accounting fraud given she wrote the book on enron. bethany, a pleasure to have you. let's get your take on these charges. now we have kind of a he said/she said thing going on here. >> i think it is the same old story which is that you have outside skeptics saying there's something wrong at autonomy and people were short hp as a result of their skepticism about autonomy. and everybody on the inside says, no problem, no problem, there were no signs there were any issues

we have heard from deloitte, the firm that audited autonomy's numbers.y say they were not engaged by hp or by autonomy to provide due diligence in relation to the acquisition of autonomy. deloitte you can was auditor to autonomy at the time of its acquisition by hp. they go on to say some charges leveled by hp, they deny they had any accounting improprieties. all those statements can stand on their own but they don't mean deloitte shouldn't have been in a better position to do more work to figure out if, in fact, these problems were there. we'll see what happens. >> the bottom line is deloitte is saying -- it sounds like they're standing by their audit through december of 2010. >> and just saying, well, we did what we normally do as an auditor -- >> they didn't know about it, otherwise they didn't know of any. >> a lot more to come, as we well know. the s.e.c. and the fraud office in the uk and some say the fbi involved in the investigation. >> fascinating story, though that's still developing. let's get to carl who's on the floor. carl? >> thank you ver

autonomy was audited by deloitte and it was audited by kpmg, two of the big four accounting firms. they didn't notice anything? really? this sale involved a list of banks and law firms on both sides of the deal that are supposed to be in the best in the business including goldman sachs, citigroup and barclays. plus it is not as if there were no warning signs before the acquisition. oracle had considered buying autonomy for $6 billion and decided that even that was overpriced. whether autonomy did anything wrong will take time to decide but hp's mistake is simply incomprehensible. this is like buying a rolls-royce and then driving it around for a year before you figure out it is a yugo. mix. >>now it's your turn at the only online forum with a direct line to eliot spitzer. >>join the debate now. >> eliot: welcome back. i'm joined by professor reich of u.c. berkeley, former labor secretary under president clinton and author of "beyond outrage." we're going to talk fiscal cliff in a minute. before we get there this hp thing has me going nuts! it is wall street at its worst. they paid

autonomy was audited by deloitte and it was audited by kpmg, two of the big four accounting firms.y didn't notice anything? really? this sale involved a list of banks and law firms on both sides of the deal that are supposed to be in the best in the business including goldman sachs, citigroup and barclays. plus it is not as if there were no warning signs before the acquisition. oracle had considered buying autonomy for $6 billion and decided that even that was overpriced. whether autonomy did anything wrong will take time to decide but hp's mistake is simply incomprehensible. this is like buying a rolls-royce and then driving it around for a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a a these talking points, that the right have, about the "heavy hand of government" ... i want to have that conversation. let's talk about it. really? you're going to lay people off because now the government is going to help you fund your healthcare. really? i want to have those conversations, not to be confrontational, but to understand what the other side is saying, and i'd like to arm our

here in a cnbc exclusive, tom mcgee, national managing partner of deloitte. so one of the last times you did a survey like this, 90% of the entrepreneurs said the united states was a best place to open a new business. this time, only 60%. that ask a 33% decline. why? >> i think there is a number of factors around that. the survey population of mid market companies, companies between $10 million to $1 billion of revenue. i think there are individual factors. concerns about tax policy, regulatory costs, et cetera. for the most part they'd like both of those to be lower. but i think the bigger issue and bigger factor is really just the uncertainty in the broader marketplace. i know today on this program and just generally we've been talking about the fiscal cliff in this country. just the longer term budget deficit and those challenges. i think mid market executives recognize that whatever the conclusion is to those things could have an implication -- >> certainly the tax policy issues, budget things, fiscal cliff, that's a level of uncertainty. but there's alwa

this is the full quote, deloitte u.k. notes the allegations made by hewlett-packard that some former members of autonomy's management team used serious accounting improprieties disclosure failures and outright misrepresentations to inflate the financial metrics of the company. prior to autonomy's acquisition by hp and that these allegations have been referred to the sec and sfo. we cannot comment further on this matter due to client confidentiality. we will cooperate with the relevant authorities with any investigations into these allegations. there's a simple question, what good is a million dollars accountant if they can't find accounting improprieties? back to you tracy. tracy: i asked myself as a former auditor, i asked myself the same question. at the same time, as the auditor, you don't prepare the financials necessarily. you just check them. so if someone's trying to do something wrong and hide numbers and your chief accountant is not giving you everything you're supposed to have, sometimes unfortunately you can't

massive accounting fraud there they're just as guilty as lehman brothers and financial terrorism the deloitte and touche the educate p.m.g. they're just as guilty as the rating agencies and financial terrorism we're actually going to move on to them in a in the next story they want at this point i want to cover this shadow banking system because remember the shadow of the movie had the shadow had the power to cloud men's minds.

massive accounting fraud there they're just as guilty as lehman brothers and financial terrorism the deloitte and touche the k. p.m.g. they're just as guilty as the rating agencies and financial terrorism we're actually going to move on to them in a in the next story i want at this point i want to cover this shadow banking system because remember the shadow of the movie had the shadow had the power to cloud men's minds so they cannot see him and this is what i think the shadow banking system does it's cons people into not being able to see the fraud to see the theft because a lot of it is about theft about transferring that the mirror image real economy where every joe baca doenitz and joe schmoe are working they're transferring the wealth to this unaccountable unknowable dark matter out there now the size of the shadow banking system include.

the financials were audited by deloitte. the company allege autonomy pursued a number of avenues to make its margins and growth rate and overall value appear far higher than it actually was. apparently the company was selling computer hardware, first of all it was a software company, what it was doing selling desktop computers, laptops, mouses, they sold them at a loss to supplement revenues and took much of the cost of the sales and treated it as a marketing cost so gross margins would not be impacted so you show significant revenues without the costs associated with them. these were sold at a loss. the company alleged to have pulled forward sales of its key software product idle and more so to have given money to value-added resalers to buy the product from it, and then so it gave them the money, they bought the product, and by the way those are value-added resellers rather than the regional equipment manufacturers that you would want to be buying the product. it would appear it was the oem buying the product all done to s

maybe not at coca-cola or comcast or deloitte, but they certainly do on main street.ee to that, right, donny? >> based on a half million. there's a huge difference between 250,000 and 500,000. >> donny, and you i agree on that 100%. if i were still in congress, i would say, listen, i will negotiate on anything, but i am not going to raise taxes in this police climate on people making $250,000. you want to talk about $500,000? great. let's talk about it. $250,000 is a nonstarter for small business owners. in my opinion. hey, chuck, thank you so much for being with us. >> reporter: all right, brother. >> we'll see you on "the daily rundown" right after the show. joe, thank you for being with us, and more importantly, thank you for not calling the president of the united states prez, as donny deutsch suggested you should. >> i was going back to the e-mail thing. very casual. >> i got that. i got that. >> all right. joe, please come back and talk to us soon. we love having you on the show. >> thanks for having me. >> jonathan, stay with us as well. we want to talk about y

we haven't heard from deloitte that did sign off on and audited the financials at autonomy.so perhaps blame to be laid at the feet of the former ceo of hp and his team for not doing enough due diligence. you know and i know plenty of people were questioning autonomy out there in the jemt arena. plenty of blame to go around. >> jim chenos said the accounting the horrible. we'll see you soon. david faber with the latest there on hp and autonomy. big comeback in the markets in the final stretch of trading. more after this break. ? i heard you guys can ship ground for less than the ups store. that's right. i've learned the only way to get a holiday deal is to camp out. you know we've been open all night. is this a trick to get my spot? [ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. save on ground shipping at fedex office. [ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. i've been a superintendent for 30 some years at many different park service units across the united states. the only time i've ever had a break is when i was on maternity leave. i have retired from doing this

well, just today deloitte ranked it number one on their 2012 technology fast 500 list.y that, the model s has been named car of the year by automobile magazine, yahoo, and the coveted "motor trend." jim, i've test driven the model s, and as the "wall street journal" car guy says, it's a beautiful car that goes like the stink of hell. i couldn't agree more. do you still think it's too speculative? >> i was talking to my friend mike faber -- i mean david faber. mike faber's the guy from homeland. he said jimmy, have you checked out the tesla? my takeaway is tesla didn't go down because romney lost but i need earnings. i've got enough problems with the companies that got big earnings, big dividends, i don't need to go into the speculative mode right now. please be careful. with the fiscal cliff looming the early bird is not catching the worm right now. it's just getting crushed. okay? the fiscal clifford, yes -- fiscal clifford, the big red ink dog is going to crush the early birds. it's too late to sell for most stocks already, though. well, let's say for a lot of them. a

shareholder law side has named deloitte and kpm claiming they missed numerous red flags. board of directors also named. >> a magnetic lawsuit. you see the press release go out and someone has to boiler plate to say, okay, we're the accountants, we're the bankers, here we go. >> if it's fraud -- no one is calling it that, but that's hard for anyone to see. the accounting firms, the acquiring company. >> i'm still amazed that mike lynch is out there. >> what are you saying? out where? as free man? >> no, he's come on cnbc, he's talked to the press. all a journalist, i'm thrilled. >> that's an old emploploy. if you hide, you're guilty. wells fargo says it won't face sec actions. they closed its investigation and doesn't plan to recommend any enforcement action. has wells ever gotten a wells notice, would they call it something else for wells fargo? that's complicated. like yesterday saic sending a note to -- sec sending a wells notice to saic. did they just say okay you're do that and we're sending you one? they didn't come right back with that. >> someone at the sec would h

for more on the impact on the insurance industry we're joined by the director of deloitte insurance industrymer new york state insurance superintendent. sir, you look at that, and you think, oh, my god how will we ever fay for that? you're saying that the property casualty insurers will be fine. >> the industry is very well-capitalized. $20 billion loss is a huge number. to put it in context that is half what katrina was. the industry is well-capitalized. they can handle the $20 billion in insured losses. but as your intro indicated, $20 billion of insured losses is only a piece of it. the total economic damage is much more. of that will be borne by the taxpayer. tracy: so the taxpayer, you're saying will pick up the bill to repair anything federal? things like that, right? explain that. >> the public infrastructure. the bridges, tunnels. getting the tunnels back up and mta, all of hose types of things that is governmental obligation. it is not insured. so that is ultimately going to be borne by the federal and state governments. i'm sure we'll probably see moves in congress by the congressi

>>deloitte and touche-sense something is fishy here wall street is starting to sense that it is moreg to say that they did a bad deal so let's blame them instead of buzz. >>we're getting into the holiday shopping season and best buy is usually a big draw for people what are you thinking? >>i like to go window shopping at best buy but when i arrive there there's usually no one there. >>this kinda like is a drug store. >>some areas are higher than others. what happens will people go buying or shopping for tvs? >>they can go online and they can get their stuff in two days. >>a $10 million loss and when you look at a store like apple they are the most profitable company in america. >>let's turn the tide to winners. >>a survey came out this stated that christmas season stresses the mall. there were asked whether an not to do away with the holiday season and people off stated yes. >>if you want to make it all about christmas then go ahead. that average american family spends a lot of money on these holidays. most americans are saving not saving for retirement. >>i am a fruitcake died. i bu

deloitte breaks it down by day with 23% of those surveyed saying they would be out on thanksgiving. that's more than last year's 17%. 63% said they would shop today. slightly less than last year and the peak hours seem to be around midnight and then later at about 10:00 a.m. p so a couple hours from now. and if you think about couch commerce and really how online has changed the game, there are interesting things at play. c comuware says every who bought tablets last year are using them this year to shop. but thanksgiving day already very, very strong. >> so have you bought anything yet? >> i actually haven't, but i have caught in thing -- some things have caught my eye. a lot of good sales. a lot of add-ons. so i don't know, i might fall for it, too. >> it's hard. i've been out in the smalls and it's hard to avoid it when you're standing out there. the numbers for online retail, i remember back when online retail was first starting out back in the late 1990s, and that's when we used to see numbers like that is correct increases of 25% to 30%. but that's when they were working up a

>> i went to work at deloitte % touche and i spent years going to numerous companies looking for inefficiencies. i rejoined the family business, and i started a small affiliate company, and that was because of the bp oil spill. oil was quite a comedown our west coast. i was putting people to work in the gulf of mexico. that is a small business and is affiliated with a larger company. >> i am concerned about you continue to represent yourself as a cpa, but you are not certified or registered in florida, so you are misleading people. that is a big concern that i have. we have to be truthful with people. when it comes to small business, i have sat on a small business committee. every person that comes up there, we have to get them stability with our tax code. we're talking about a flat tax. we cannot -- if we raise taxes on those top two brackets, that will kill small business. it will affect 2.1 small businesses in the united states. that is what i'm fighting to do. >> a rebuttal on this charge? >> i am a cpa, in colorado. i was endorsed -- i am an active member of the florida institute of cpa's.