it's really interesting, remember, the previous speaker, dennis hastert, the republican, he had a rule called the majority of the majority rule and it was his own rule and it meant i will not pass major legislation, i won't bring it to the floor, unless most of my caucus supports it. it really made the minority party irrelevant. it didn't matter whether or not they showed up. now, democrats criticized that policy at the time saying it was anti-democratic. so now they are saying, hey, we never subscribed to that. but the fact is, tom, that if a democratic president and a democratic majority have to pass a big piece of legislation, primarily with republican votes, it's not the most comfortable thing in the world. >> and gwen, you talk about getting things done or not done. if they were to have that rule, if president obama were to face that rule in the house, he could look forward in the second half of his term to getting -- having a really hard time getting money for the war in afghanistan, to getting a trade pact, like approval of the korea-u.s. trade agreement. gwen: let's pull back f

on a metaphor and squeeze meaning out of it, but i think superficially, his unrstanding -- >> dennis hastert. >> a really decent guy, a nice guy, but while a good speaker and a solid speaker, no flair, nothing special stands him out amongst the crowd. i think he served longer than any other republican as speaker of the house, but he does not leave much in his wake. >> you already spoke about nancy pelosi is legislative accomplishments. what are your viewof her as a leader? >> i remember when she first got to be majority leader -- no,he was speaker. the california delegation was meeting to pick a certain committee for people in that part of the country. i went by to ask her support for somebody else outside california. i said to nancy, why don't you just left the caucus make that decision for you? then you are not responsible for it. you cannot win and you are going to antagonize some people and alienate others if you go forward with the proposal to put a certain person on a certain committee. >> she said it has to be done right, and i hope in the long run i will be vindicated. that is our at

then speaker dennis hastert, what did he do? he held a conference and told republicans, respect the will of the american people. we will not legislate our agenda in a lame duck. what are you doing? you are ignoring the will of the american people and trying to jam everything imaginable that you can before you quote, lose power. let's do gays in the military and do everything imaginable you can, let's do this. you are creating more inequities in this bill than you think you are correcting. in order to understand my concerns, you know, originally the bill cost nearly $80 billion and was not paid for. we could be headed for a similar situation by passing this bill today without going through regular order. i received a long list of technical changes from the v.a. that would have facilitated successful implementation. the majority continued to block my efforts for these changes. in the end, the house once again will have no say in a major piece of legislation expanding veterans' benefits. be careful about pounding your chests thinki

a metaphor and squeeze meaning out of it, but i think superficially, his understanding -- >> dennis hastert. >> a really decent guy, a nice guy, but while a good speaker and a solid speaker, no flair, nothing special stands him out amongst the crowd. i think he served longer than any other republican as speaker of the house, but he does not leave much in his wake. >> you already spoke about nancy pelosi is legislative accomplishments. what are your views of her as a leader? >> i remember when she first got to be majority leader -- no, she was speaker. the california delegation was meeting to pick a certain committee for people in that part of the country. i went by to ask her support for somebody else outside california. i said to nancy, why don't you just left the caucus make that decision for you? then you are not responsible for it. you cannot win and you are going to antagonize some people and alienate others if you go forward with the proposal to put a certain person on a certain committee. >> she said it has to be done right, and i hope in the long run i will be vindicated. that is ou