dennis lockhart, we thank you. dennis is out there talking maybe still. would have loved to have heard his answer to that question. so they could be on hold through 2024 i mean, that's, that's a long time to have higher rates i don't think -- >> i would submit it's the exact right amount of time to get us back to some semblance of -- i'm not arguing with you >> i'm not saying right or wrong. >> maybe they should start because they're combatting 15 years of excess and they're trying to do it now with all the things they're putting in place, correctly. i don't think it's preposterous to think we could have rates all of next year equity market doesn't want to hear it. that's too bad that's the environment we put ourselves in over a last decade and a half from a reckless federal reserve. >> if the equity market should have ever been here, right so you can't disprove the counterfactual, but should we have ever been looking at an equity market of 4800 in the s&p? with the environment with rates where they were, yes where rates where they're going for longer per