lambeau or miss deparl? >> i don't remember. >> in those meetings that you were at the white house, were any of those run by jean lambeau or nancy ann deparl? >> one was run by nancy ann, and just a couple i attended that was with jean lambeau. my role was to provide five-minute status on the hub development. but i don't think, you know, it was -- >> i'm not worried so much about your role, i just want to establish the fact that you were at the white house between 10 and 29 times. mr. park was there nine times. mr. vanroekel, how many meetings were you at the white house? >> i don't recall. >> were you in any meetings with jean -- >> i've been in the company of those two people. >> mr. chairman, my time is expired. those are the individuals that need to come in front of this committee and we can't accept the fact that we got a letter from the white house saying, thank you, but we're not coming. >> i note for all members that there is a vote out on the floor, we're going to go until the very last minute. i kn

nancy-ann deparle who was the ark -- architect of this fought long and hards to be the ones to actuallyn't get an architect to be the general contractor for a house. you just don't. martha: who would have been good at this? >> you need people who have been in the trenches with technology experience, that have been in the insurance policy or employer or health i.t. industry that understand all of the complexities to lead the charge to know how to bring all of these players together. and, unfortunately, they still don't have that. you know, qssi is a great company, but it's far more complex than picking a web site. martha: the president made an interesting statement the other day, he said one of the things we want to figure out is the government i.t. procurement process that needs to be fixed. what does that tell you? >> well, that's a big problem because when they need to select a vendor, what they didn't really look at is exactly what you asked before, is what are the right skill sets that we need in understanding the skill sets to bring in the right vendor. and there have been a lot of