department of defense, connecticut operations. yesterday i met with the national security staff and we are meeting with state department justice of commerce, transportation, defense, department of homeland security, looking at a government approach of what other tools we can use to attack this very pernicious threats. we look at ransom payments. you heard average payments of $4.5 million. these a typically cash payments. a very difficult challenge to track down where did the money go. typically having worked a number of counterdrug cases brought by coast guard career we have been very successful tracking down money payments, using that to get to the head of the hydrate if you will as the threat continues to expand. what we have stood up is the contract group from piracy of the coast of somalia and now

department of homeland security through the california emergency management agency to fund critical planning and infrastructure protection needs. supervisor chu: thank you. we have someone from the department of the emergency management. >> good morning. and the item before you this morning is a five under thousand dollar grant from the u.s. department of homeland security for a program called the buffer zone protection program. this will provide additional security for sensitive infrastructure in the bay area, through things like improvement to strengthen and fortified the physical plant of the site, by installing barriers or blast walls, installing security systems. the grant will provide additional security at three sites selected by homeland security officials, in consultation with the sfpd. the board has seen the script before. one of them was approved unanimously in 2008. the two main points is that there are no local matching funds required for the grant and no new positions created. i am happy to answer any questions you might have. supervisor chu: thank you. i do not believe we have

under surveillance these documents were made public as a result of a lawsuit against the department of homeland security brought by the privacy organization epic the electronic privacy information center i mean you know in the studios the staff counsel and assistant director of the open government program of epic ginger because ginger welcome thank you for having me truck size church off or no scanners is that what these guys had in mind the backscatter vans that's what they're called and they're actually designed to be roving bands that are equipped for the back scatter technology which is the way that they basically see people naked you know which is the x. ray scans they put forth radiation they scan people and they produce that make an image that we're dealing with now did the plug get pulled on this because it would involve massive amounts of radiation or because there was a technical. well what we have no real money we don't really know is the best that i can say about this these documents the contracts are dated from two thousand and five until two thousand and eight we haven't received any later

moreover, i would like to thank secretary janet napolitano and the department of homeland security f the support los angeles has received regarding combatting violent extremism. the los angeles county sheriff's department has long been a leader in the development of relationships with the various ethnic, cultural and religious communities that thrive in the los angeles area. we have established strong bonds through continuing outreach and physical presence and important

newly released documents from the department of homeland security show that the chertoff airport porno scanners we all loved were merely the first step if it were rise of privacy intruding technologies that c.s.a. considered to keep us humiliated in two thousand and five d.h. has signed a nearly two million dollars contract with the rapid scan systems corporation that makes the church of scanners at a corporation the former homeland security secretary michael chertoff now lobbies for that contract was for rapid scan to develop similar secret chertoff scanners for train stations or bus depots and also systems that could analyze a crowd of people see them all naked without people realizing that they were even under surveillance these documents were made public as a result of a lawsuit against the department of homeland security brought by the privacy organization epic the electronic privacy information center i mean now in the studio is the staff counsel and assistant director of the open government program at epic ginger mccall ginger welcome thank you for having me truck sized church o

of homeland security. also was assistant attorney general for the criminal division at the department of justice and judge the third circuit court of appeals before becoming secretary of homeland security. tom ridge is the former governor of pennsylvania. the first secretary of homeland security. the first director of office a month after 9/11. perhaps of the most -- perhaps the most challenging job of all. i was very struck by you look at your former colleagues, your predecessors, and you look at how relaxed they appeared well they were sharing coffee, and you said this is the future after being homeland security secretary. what keeps you up at night? what is your greatest fear that we face as a nation and that you face in your job? is it the fact that 28 people were killed last week alone along the mexican border as part of the ongoing drug war, which some say it is the most frightening of the challenges facing the homeland right now. what is it that really faces you? i want to acknowledge that outgoing long-time homeland security specialist, j. harmon who has joined us and sitting next to walter. >> it

moreover, i would like to thank secretary janet napolitano and the department of homeland security for the support los angeles has received regarding combatting violent extremism. the los angeles county sheriff's department has long been a leader in the development of relationships with the various ethnic, cultural and religious communities that thrive in the los angeles area. we have established strong bonds through continuing outreach and physical presence and important events to every community. therefore i would caution that to comment only on the extent of radicalization in the muslim american community may be viewed as singling out a particular section of our nation. this makes a false assumption that any group is prone to radicalization than others. according to information provided by the congressional research service, there have been 77 total terror plots by domestic non-muslim perpetrators since 9/11. in comparison, there have been 41 total plots by both domestic and international muslim perpetrators during the same period. reports indicate that muslim americans helped foil

as i said two weeks ago on this floor, the department of homeland security is not immune from fiscal discipline and no program or agency is beyond the belt tightening that our government so desperately needs. by implementing these cuts we are not choosing between homeland security and fiscal responsibility, both are serious national security concerns and issues, and must be dealt with immediately. and through a series of choices, this c.r. achieves both. madam speaker, this c.r. is a reasonable first step in addressing our government's fiscal crisis. there is absolutely no reason why the president or our colleagues in the senate cannot support these overdue spending cuts. the american people are demanding no less. i thank the distinguished chairman of the appropriations committee for yielding this time. i yield back the balance of my time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman yields back the balance of his time. the gentleman from washington. mr. dicks: i yield myself one minute. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman is recognized. mr. dicks: you know, as i have said here today, e

. >> tonight on c-span, marking the eighth anniversary of the department of homeland security with former secretaries tom ridge and michael chertoff and current secretary janet napolitano. they discuss the nature of threats facing the country, the structure of the agency and what they miss most about the job. >> people have asked me do i miss being secretary, and to a certain extent i say, yes, i miss working with the people and their hard work, particularly in the early months and years. it was very tense but an exciting time, and when you're around good people, it's a great cause associated with it. i miss not knowing. e mean, not that everything we read every morning, michael or janet, was something you'd want to run home and talk to the family and kids about, but you do miss not knowing. >> former secretaries discuss the department of homeland security tonight at 8 p.m. eastern on c-span. >> "the communicators" is on location at the seventh annual state of the net conference sponsored by the internet caucus of congress. joining us now is dr. william lehr of massachusetts institute of

and i feel that without the representation of the department of homeland security, the f.b.i., the departmentf justice we are seeing a very skewed discussion. >> local director said this morning the organization was not invited to the hearing. she defended the group saying when civil rights groups like the aclu speak truth to power, the government gets upset. she invited everyone to go to the care website and said they have nothing to hide. >> a quake hit offshore this morning. 2 struck in the bali sea off indonesia. though a tsunami warning was issue, no immediate report of damages or injuries. >> next week secretary of state hillary clinton plans to meet with members of libya's opposition who are fighting to topple leader moammer gadhafi. clinton will also be visiting egypt and tunisia to press for democratic reforms following the protest that ousted the two country's long-time rulers. meantime troops loyal to qaddafi have driven protestors out of the strategic oil groups. a city that has fallen into opposition hands. the president of the international red cross says doctors in libya are se

in response to these attacks, congress created the department of homeland security to be led by the secretary, a member of the president's cabinet. the creation of the department united 22 agencies across they say the branch, making it a lot but -- the largest reorganization of the federal government since harry truman. last month, secretary to paul tallow said -- secretary janet the paula, said it takes the reorganization of the entire society, all playing their respective roles. the department of homeland security was created to serve as a catalyst and the greater of the nation's efforts to promote the general welfare. our universities recognize the role we play in this effort, whether in fostering public this court's -- discourse or engaging in that kind of scholarship that can support the effort of our nation or by educating the leaders of tomorrow who will contribute to these efforts. it is in that spirit that we come together today. it is my pleasure to introduce our moderator, andrea mitchell, who will begin our program. she is the nbc news chief foreign affairs correspondent. she curr

in response to these attacks, congress created the department of homeland security to be led by the secretary, a member of the president's cabinet. the creation of the department united 22 agencies across they say the branch, making it a lot but -- the largest reorganization of the federal government since harry truman. last month, secretary to paul tallow said -- secretary janet the paula, said it takes the reorganization of the entire society, all playing their respective roles. the department of homeland security was created to serve as a catalyst and the greater of the nation's efforts to promote the general welfare. our universities recognize the role we play in this effort, whether in fostering public this court's -- discourse or engaging in that kind of scholarship that can support the effort of our nation or by educating the leaders of tomorrow who will contribute to these efforts. it is in that spirit that we come together today. it is my pleasure to introduce our moderator, andrea mitchell, who will begin our program. e is the nbc news chief foreign affairs correspondent. she curren

moreover, i would like to thank secretary janet napolitano and the department of homeland security for the support los angeles has received regarding combatting violent extremism. the los angeles county sheriff's department has long been a leader in the development of relationships with the various ethnic, cultural and religious communities that thrive in the los angeles area. we have established strong bonds through continuing outreach and physical presence and important events to every community. therefore i would caution that to comment only on the extent of radicalization in the muslim american community may be viewed as singling out a particular section of our nation. this makes a false assumption that any group is prone to radicalization than others. according to information provided by the congressial research service, there have been 77 total terror plots by domestic non-muslim perpetrators since 9/11. in comparison, there have been 41 total plots by both domestic and international muslim perpettors during the same riod. reports indicate that muslim americans helped foil seven

department of emergency management to rector actively except and extend its fiscal year 2008 protection program grant in the amount of approximately 5079000 from the u.s. department of homeland security to fund critical planning and infrastructure protection needs. >> a house, same call. this resolution is adopted. -- same house, same call? item 15. >> resolution approving the issuance of tax-exempt revenue bonds in the amount not to exceed $120 million to finance various capital facilities. >> same house, call? next item. >> resolution authorizing the san francisco department of environment to except 47 electric the local charges and three years of service. >> a house, call? this resolution is adopted. item 17. >> item 17 is a resolution authorizing the pit of children, you can and families to retroactively except grant funding in the amount of $3 million from the bill and let the case foundation to fund the san francisco bridge to success program. >> same house, same call? this resolution is adopted. item 18. >> resolution approving the execution and delivery of the program lis and improving the issuance of bonds in an amount not to exceed 16.5 million. >> same house, same call? th

hr-1 as approved by the house would reduce funding for the department of homeland security by $1.1 billion, or 3% in the middle of the fiscal year. my colleagues on the other side of the aisle have consistently emphasized the business community's need for predictability and certainty. yet this same principle does not seem to extend to the public sector and the operations of governing. surely dhs has a right to expect some predictability and certainty as it pursues its counterterrorism and homeland security's activities. turning to my second concern, there's a very real threat that the funding for dhs operations for the next fiscal year 2012 will plunge to 2006 levels. my staff provided analysis for how dhs's fiscal year 2012 budget would be negatively impacted by hr-408, the bill put forward by the republican study committee. the picture it presents is potentially devastating to the department. dhs's budget would be cut by $10.7 billion. this proposal would mean that customs and border protection would lose $3 billion. over 8,200 border patrol agents or 2, 800 cdp officers would have to go

. >> tonight on c-span, marking the eighth anniversary of the department of homeland security with formerecretary tom ridge and michael chertoff. and current secretary janet napolitano. they discuss the nature of threats facing didn't country, the structure of the agency, and what they miss most about the job. >> people have asked me, do i miss being secretary, and to a certain extent, i say yes, i miss working with the people that i became do trust, respect, and in my ear because of their hard work. particularly in the early months and years. it was very intense but an exciting time. you enjoy what you're doing with a great cause associated. and it is not knowing. not that everything we read every morning was something you would want to run home and talk to the family and kids about. but you do miss not knowing. >> they discussed the department of homeland security tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. >> c-span sat down last week with potential gop 2012 presidential candidate herman cain. it talks about why he is likely to enter the race, the obama administration, his business career

and i have to give high cret to the department of homeland security for what they're doing. but i would focus on continuing what we have already established. a lot of wk has been done by this committee. we're not starting anew here. we're fine tuning as i see this. and listening to other ideas. but if you could look at a subcommittee, which i know you have, which would allow for my colleagues to come in, and talk in a prepared manner about these suggestions, i tnk you would have a better idea as to what local law enforcement needs. >> thank you very much. i yield. >> the time of the gentleman is expired. the gentle lady from texas is recognized for five minutes. >> i thank the gentleman very much and i want to thank personally all of the witnesses that are here today. i respect the fact that you are here, sheriff baca, we have worked together, we have visited. i thank you you so very much for your presence here today. but i'm reminded of someone, proverb now quoted by sheila jackson lee, cleaning a dirty kitchen. you can't clean it with dirty water. there are no redeeming fac

the department of homeland security says so far all tests for radiation are negative. >> in an exercise of caution and just to make sure that everyone remains safe, we are doing screening of passengers and/or cargo if there happens to be even a blip in terms of radiation. we have seen no radiation by the way, even on coming cargo or passengers that comes close to reaching a harmful level. >> reporter: right now a forecast by the comprehensive nuclear test ban treaty organization shows how the radiation plume from the failing nuclear reactor in japan is drifting across the pacific, over the islands today and then arriving in southern california tomorrow. but experts believe it will also be detected in sacramento. folks arriving from japan and into sfo this morning say they were not screened for radiation. as for fears, we didn't find anyone who had any. there were some concerns, but nothing major. >> people are on holiday in japan. they are cutting short their holiday and going back. >> there is obviously concern. no one knows it is going to happen. there is a lot of spreading panic unne

the department of homeland security says so far all tests for radiation are negative. >> in an exercise of caution and just to make sure that everyone remains safe, we are doing screening of passengers and/or cargo if there happens to be even a blip in terms of radiation. we have seen no radiation by the way, even on coming cargo or passengers that comes close to reaching a harmful level. >> reporter: right now a forecast by the comprehensive nuclear test ban treaty organization shows how the radiation plume from the failing nuclear reactor in japan is drifting across the pacific, over the islands today and then arriving in southern california tomorrow. but experts believe it will also be detected in sacramento. folks arriving from japan and into sfo this morning say they were not screened for radiation. as for fears, we didn't find anyone who had any. there were some concerns, but nothing major. >> people are on holiday in japan. they are cutting short their holiday and going back. >> there is obviously concern. no one knows it is going to happen. there is a lot of spreading panic unne

. >> one the witnesses testified that t department of homeland security and tsa basically funded a national academy of sciences report where it made a recommendation for evaluating the effectiveness of all initiatives in a systematic way and then had a process out there. do you follow that prosays when evaluating the different techniques? >> i think if you talk about the process we use for developing our technologies, yes, we use a systematic process in doing that. >> do you use the one from the national academy of sciences? >> the one from the department of homeland security. >> do you know how that measures up to the congress recommendations? >> i don't. >> can you get that for the record for us? >> certainly. >> how your policy and standards and evaluation process lines up with the national academy of sciences in the 2008 report paid for by the homelandecurity and tsa. >> yes, sir. >> tnk you vermuch, i yield back, mr. chairman. >> chair now recognizes the gentleman from texas for five minutes. >> thank you very much. y'l, in response to privacy concerns you implemented the pat down sear

. >> one the witnesses testified that the department of homeland security and tsa basically funded a national academy of sciences report where it made a recommendation for evaluating the effectiveness of all initiatives in a systematic way and then had a process out there. do you follow that prosays when evaluating the different techniques? >> i think if you talk about the process we use for developing our technologies, yes, we use a systematic process in doing that. >> do you use the one from the national academy of sciences? >> the one from the department of homeland security. >> do you know how that measures up to the congress recommendations? >> i don't. >> can you get that for the record for us? >> certainly. >> how your policy and standards and evaluation process lines up with the national academy of sciences in the 2008 report paid for by the homeland security and tsa. >> yes, sir. >> thank you very much, i yield back, mr. chairman. >> chair now recognizes the gentleman from texas for five minutes. >> thank you very much. y'all, in response to privacy concerns you implemented t

the department of homeland security and this committee were formed in response to the al qaeda attacks of september 11th. there is no equivalency of threat between al qaeda and neo-nazis, environmental extremists or other isolated madmen. only al qaeda, and islamic affiliates in this country are part of an international threat to our nation. indeed by the justice department's own record, not one terror-related case in the last two years involved neo-nazis, environmental extremists, militias or anti-war groups. itch i have repeatedly said the overwhelming majority of muslim americans are outstanding americans and made enormous contributions to our country but there are realities we can't ignore. for instance the pew poll that said 15% of muslim american men between the age of 18 and 29 could support suicide bombings. this is a segment of the community al qaeda is attempting to recruit. to combat this threat moderate leadership must emerge in the muslim community. as a majority and minority staff of the senate homeland security committee concluded in its report which ironically enough wa

one, it requires a close partnership with the department of homeland security. there were some good things that erka did. they be located in two different parts of the community, set up offices that were successful. we should work with the homeland security. due out reach to the communities on the process and procedures. many people did not know what the exact requirements for and how it was -- requirements were and how it was going to be implemented. the third thing i would add is, we have to do our best to reach every community by working with the new community groups that have emerged since 1986, to make sure that each community has access to services. although, nationwide, the vast majority of those undocumented are latino. and california, while the majority is latino, california actually has a much larger percentage of non-latinos that are not documented. íx"r>> i was hoping you were gog to ask that question. i am not going to repeat the and of reach, but are finding your networks to get to those hard to reach communities. in san jose we have a somali commun

we've created a major new institutions from the department of homeland security, cyber command and the 2004 leadership of senator collins and lieberman, congress created the office of the director of intelligence, national counterterrorism center, what to make sure we had a unity of effort among the intelligence community. now despite all this progress, some major 9/11 commission recommendations still remain unfulfilled. and we would suggest today that these require urgent action because the threat from al qaeda and related terrorist groups and individual tenants to violent islamist extremism assists to this day. al qaeda and related terrorist groups continue to pose a serious threat to all of us. al qaeda central has been diminished with its leadership, osama bin laden and al-zawahiri are at large. it would leave us less likely the threat is more complex and it's more diverse than any time in the last decade. al qaeda and its allies continue to have the intent and the reach to kill dozens of americans and do so in a single attack. there is a high risk of attacks we believe they will l

and i feel that without the representation of the department of homeland security the f.b.i. e department of justice we are seeing a very skewed discussion. >> local director said this morning the organization was not invited to the hearing. she defended the group saying when civil rights groups like the aclu speak truth to power, the government gets upset. she invited everyone to go to the care website and said they have nothing to hide. >> a quake hit offshore this morning. 2 struck in the bali sea off indonesia. though a tsunami warning was issue, no immediate report of damages or injuries. >> next week secretary of state hillary clinton plans to meet with members of libya's opposition who are fighting to topple leader moammer gadhafi. clinton will also be visiting egypt and tunisia to press for democratic reforms following the protest that ousted the two country's long-time rulers. meantime troops loyal to qaddafi have driven protestors out of the strategic oil groups. a city that has fallen into opposition hands. the president of the international red cross says doctors i

if you look at the mission of the department of homeland security or any agencies with a responsibility of protecting the border or national security efforts, the number one mission is making sure bad people don't come here to do harm. that's not necessarily the drugs, illegal aliens or that, but it's the weapons of mass destruction and crossing the borders. while focusing on that, you have to take away the other clutter if you will. to take the drug problem and put it into a more controllable floor would be great. to be able to have a better flow of illegal activity coming across the border, a documented worker program would really allow the law enforcement people in the department of homeland security who focus on border security as part of the overall national security scheme would give us a better opportunity to provide the highest level of security for this country recognizing we are a free and open society that's not going to completely knock down the borders, but you can focus on areas of high concern. >> i'd like to reenforce what jay said. it's partly how we use the language. w

we've created a major new institutions from the department of homeland security, cyber command and the 2004 leadership of senator collins and lieberman, congress created the office of the director of intelligence, national counterterrorism center, what to make sure we had a unity of effort among the intelligence community. now despite all this progress, some major 9/11 commission recommendations still remain unfulfilled. and we would suggest today that these require urgent action because the threat from al qaeda and related terrorist groups and individual tenants to violent islamist extremism assists to this day. al qaeda and related terrorist groups continue to pose a serious threat to all of us. al qaeda central has been diminished with its leadership, osama bin laden and al-zawahiri are at large. it would leave us less likely the threat is more complex and it's more diverse than any time in the last decade. al qaeda and its allies continue to have the intent and the reach to kill dozens of americans and do so in a single attack. there is a high risk of attacks we believe they will l

some agencies like those in the department of defense have a centralized system with a single official. others like department of homeland security, department of transportation, department of agriculture have multiple. usually head of the contracting activities for each major company. the department of security has nine. the department of transportation has 16sdo's. some agencies have sdo's who are dedicated full time to the system, but many agencies have senior leaders for whom the sdo responsibility is a collateral duty. each agency makes its own decision on the the approach and structure of the its system. as noted previously, the suspension department system only works if it is used. it only functions to protect the agency from conducting business transactions with contractors who like present responsibility of agency personnel are willing and ability to debar firms that demonstrated they are not responsible. fortunately, many agencies like the department of army have the will and spades to utilize the system and create innovative approaches for holding contractors responsible. the army has done this with many actions arisin

the new carmen and according to a department of homeland security study islamic extremists are seen as a threat in thirty one states while neo nazi and white supremacist cells groups left out of king's homeland security hearings are seen as a threat in all but four when we talk about terrorism in the united states what who've been the terrorists you know some poor pathetic nut in arizona timothy mcveigh in oklahoma city these are the people who are killing americans and . most critics on the right and the left the absence of mccarthyism are troubling last month he also introduced the see something say something designed to prevent citizens from lawsuits when they report suspicious activity but critics say it amounts to little more than informing on each other much as they did during mccarthyism and the cold war killing ford r. t. washington d.c. and senior giuliani who's a muslim american doctor and journalist says the u.s. is witnessing a people being singled out just for their religion. it is a very disturbing time in america when we are singling out a group of people based on their

flying over japan to take note of the damage from the earthquake and tsunami and the department of homeland security is now toying with the idea of using drones to prevent domestic terrorist attacks and using them within u.s. airspace however i really doubt that i want to become a reality most americans probably have no problem with the. use of drones in other countries but somehow i doubt that they're going to be ok with those unmanned planes patrolling our skies right here at home own guess who's all gung ho when it comes to thrown our own secretary of defense robert gates he's been outspoken for years now in the u.s. air force using unmanned aircraft replacing the cold war style bomber jets and in a recent speech gates also said that he hopes that his successor will share his views on the use of drones so i guess what this latest move is just more proof of the era of drones is here to say whether they're weaponized or not get used to constant eyes in the sky. now it's become a regular topic of discussion on this program the way to washington works and in hand with hollywood making the issue of co

. >> couric: the department of homeland security today began screening passengers in the u.s.g from japan for radiation. some who flew to chicago's o'hare airport tested positive but at levels too low to cause any health concern. radioactive plumes from the fukushima plant are expected to reach the west coast of the u.s. as early as tomorrow. health officials and, as we heard, president obama insists there no danger to the u.s. or pa pacific territories. cnn's dr. sanjay gawp a, a cbs news contributor, is in tokyo. is this plume over the pacific ocean dangerous? >> i think short answer is no and there's lots of different reasons why. first of all, they have some idea already, katie, of what the radiation levels have been and therefore what the radiation levels in this plume are likely to be and the numbers are pretty extraordinarily small. for example, if you think about a chest x-ray that a person may get, the amount of radiation from this plume would be one-tenth of that. that it would cause in any individual in the united states. the second thing is there are radiation dete

and infuriating ron to bring you on the homeland security is attack on websites and the past week told you about how badly ice working the with the department of homeland security has screwed up by taking down wrong websites leaving up a message accusing innocent sites of child pornography and now they've done it again this time in efforts to curb copyright infringement on the internet let me explain here a web site called channel surfing dot net was set up to a link people to other web sites where then they can watch online streams of t.v. shows and sports programs so you get it's a web site it's linking you to other web sites where you can watch streaming videos you know where in there is any mention of downloading at all the issue at hand when i slurred about channel surfing gotten they shut down the site with their typical scary eagle and f.b.i. homeland security warnings and then they arrested the pages owner and charged him with criminal copyright infringement so brian mccarthy is facing up to five years behind bars for charges that technically speaking don't even apply to him now luckily for mccarthy the group to man progress is standin

the move to the department of homeland security certainly cost much of our maritime security equity toear. certainly within the department of homeland security be provide support through the department of transportation. but we are well placed for today and tomorrow's threats. host: as the assistant commandant out for the coast guard, he recently served as the coordinator in the deep water horizon incident in the gulf, where he directed response efforts. i wanted to show you the headlines from "the washington post" this morning. "u.s. approves shell exploration planned." host: what is the status of the situation in the gulf dampened -- in the gulf? guest: blend the deepwater rise in exploded on april 20, there was every expectation that the blowoff prevent to which your and wash the petroleum. as we know, there was the tragic loss of the 11 people on that great. and then a spill that approximates 5 million barrels. the largest in history. bringing that well under control, but of those plans did not exist on the 20th of april. particularly the july capping stack, from july 15 onwards as