so it desantis was the one in office.nd then d when trump decided to run you didn't really see desantis offer any full throated support. once he became president you saw desantis get behind his agenda. some introduced bills such as drain the swamp act. so really kind of following president trump's messaging at the time. but then, i would say -- trump endorsed him when he wanted to run for governor and it really did help a lot with his notoriety and with his name recognition and he endeded up winning his governor's seat. but, then went trump was not reelected i would say that is when things started to fall apart a little bit more. trump was not present anymore but desantis was governor and we really saw him play that out. >> kimberly is her guesser to talk about florida governor desantis, his political ambitions for june chester questions democrats (202)748-8000. republicans (202)748-8001. an independent's (202)748-8002. we set aside in line for florida residents if you and gives you perspective (202)748-8003 pretty casa t

some like desantis, too. anyway, as he weighs the 2024 presidential run, ron desantis is calling on the united states to detangle itself from the war in ukraine in an answer to a fox news questionnaire released this week, desantis said, quote, while the u.s. has many vital national interests, becoming further entangled in a territorial dispute between ukraine and russia is not one of them he later accused the biden administration of driving russia into a de facto alliance with china and empowering putin's war machine at america's expense back in 2015, when oklabama was president, desantis said this, quote, we in the congress have been urging the president, i've been, to provide arms to ukraine. they want to fight their good fight. they're not asking us to fight it for them. and the president has steadvasstea steadvastly refused, and i think that's a mistake that was back then desantis is not alone. here is some of what former president donald trump said about the war, including his most recent comments, where

they went for desantis this time. i think there is a lot that's changing in florida because so many people moved here from states that dealt with covid policies differently. it seems they moved here and then they supported what governor desantis had done especially as far as the pandemic policies. host: the governor did a recent interview with piers morgan about many different topics and he was asked about differences between him and former president trump. i want to play you a little bit of that interview. [video clip] >> i think there are a few things. the approach to covid was different. i would have fired somebody like fauci. i think he got too big for his britches and i think he did a lot of damage. in terms of my approach to leadership, i can get personnel in the government who have the agenda of the people and share our agenda. you can bring in your own agenda, you are gone. the way we run the government is no daily drama, focus on the big picture and put points on the board and i think that's very important. >

desantis even jumps en. are you seeing this schism where republicans are willing this early -- again, desantis hasn't jumped in -- to side with him as a message to trump >> i think -- i will say this, i think in 2016 member of congress are slow out of the gate but right now i think member of congress are even slower out of the gate and the fact there are people in elected office in red republican districts who are not endorsing trump i think is a sign. it's a sign desantis is viable, a sign they don't see the political risk anymore in endorsing someone else besides trump and i think that's a new dynamic. >> they seem less scared of trump or at least some of them even though many still carry water. always a pleasure. i'm sure we'll speak to you again in the days ahead. >>> still ahead here on "way too early" what to expect as treasury secretary janet yellen prepares to testify before congress today amid concerns over two major bank failures >>> plus the latest on the race to recover a u.s. drone brought down

when it comes to desantis, this is his policy. i don't know -- i haven't heard anything about dealing with the insurance crisis or his views on russia and ukraine seem to be just like trump's. his ideas are to go after trans people, go after drag shows, stop the teaching of african american history with any truth in it, promote this sort of western essentialism in education. promoting now they're going to have a six-week ban on abortion. you know, the policies seem awfully fascist. just like trump. he's just a meaner littler version. i don't understand how journalism isn't able to wrap their mind around that >> an interesting thing, when we talk historically, we had this phenomenon called mccarthyism in this country and it was called mccarthyism because of the behavior of joseph mccarthy. but if you look actually at that timeframe, that time period, mccarthy was only guilty of seeing where the crowd was heading and running out to the front of it. the phenomenon that we knew of as mccarthyism preceded joe mccarthy and it succeeded

he wants desantis to run. >> desantis hasn't announced yet.n't stop a former trump deputy secretary of homeland security supporting ron desantis in ken cucinelli. >> i didn't even know that. >> look, right now, you see that there are many members of the republican party that still don't want to lose. so many people that supported donald trump. but as we have seen, they are trying to distance themselves from the actual perp. -- person. >>> thanks one and all. still ahead, stormy daniels just met with prosecutors in the case that could lead to the indictment of mr. trump. stay with us. s a perfect fit foy small business. (vo) verizon has business internet solutions nationwide. (man) for our nonot-so-small business too. (vo) get internet that keepeps your business ready for anything. from verizon. ♪ well, the stock is bubbling in the pot ♪ ♪ just till they taste what we've got ♪ ♪ well, the stock is bubbling i♪ ow, ow ♪♪ ♪ith a big, fresh carrot ♪ ♪ and a whole lot of cheese ♪ ♪ and the mirror from your van is halfway down the stre ♪ ♪ well, you

they like desantis.orida, desantis beats trump in the republican primary 52 to 27. this is according to a university of north florida poll. i don't know. but, when you zoom out nationwide, trump is beating desantis 43, 28, a solid margin. an emerson poll says trump beats biden but biden beats desantis. but all these polls are way too early. both of these guys can beat biden. another clue desantis is running, he put a book out and he is on a huge book tour. it's the move to visit all the primary states without having to officially announce. obama did it, hillary did it, trump did it, desantis is doing it right now. and desantis has sold more books his first week than any of them. the book's good. i'm reading it. a lot of it is focused on his pandemic policies, antilockdown, anti-mandate. and his ferocious attacks on woke ideology. that's a big part of his image. >> we are also leading on insuring that our school system is focusing on educating our kids, not indoctrinating our kids. [applause] it is wrong

right now ron desantis is traveling the country. he just wrote a book that says government is the solution. government is how you go after higher education. it's how you go after rope corporations big tech. he passed a law in florida that requires all social media companies to keep accounts for anyone a candidate in that state. that is a remarkable thing for a conservative to do. to tell a private company you have to put on someone spouting whatever they are spouting on your private service. i think it is a discussion conservatives have not really had. rank-and-file conservatives have not really had it among themselves. it has been in the air a while since trump came along. we are walking into a fascinating time. >> to your point, it would have been political malpractice for a governor to attack the marquee business in his or her state the way ron desantis went after disney. it appears he read the landscape correctly. because, he emerged from that with a higher approval rating and won reelection. >> he did not just attacked the busi

desantis has so far done a good job on. >> laura: and mollie, president trump criticized desantis. he said he is for a republican an average governor. ron was a big lockdown governor. others did much better than ron because i allowed them the freedom never close your states. do you think anyone in america think lockdowns when they hear ron desantis? >> not many people would say that. he had some shut downs early on, he was known for resisting that. he had so much success. if he runs he will run touting his great success in how he handle the response to the covid pandemic better than other governors. ron desantis should focus on what a good governor he is and how other republican governors should be. he should not back track. he had good statements on the ukraine war that matched with what the average republican voter and even average american thinks about the biden and mcconnell foreign policy we are subjected to right now. he catered to that beltway establishment swamp mind set that worries people. he won't have the courage ever his convictions to stay strong. we will see how it g

and while america keeps debating trump and desantis, all desantis is a younger trump. -- americans haveoing on doing this forever and ever, they need to get rid of all the old people in congress. put some young people in their like i said. because we've been divided, we're going to stay divided just like overseas. they've been fighting before b.c. america is never going to get it together, but they need to get together. >> but gary, there's a couple topics there. jim antle, let's just talk why doesn't trump be desantis? >> right, it's really hard based on the polls to talk about anybody else. i think most of the other candidates don't break 10% on any consistent basis. i think the hope of some of these candidates would be if for whatever reason desantis doesn't run. i think there's very little to indicate that he won't, i think there's every reason to believe that he will. by some stroke of luck for them if he didn't, they would inherit some sort of base of support by simply being not trump. perhaps that's true, but i think that might be a little optimistic. i think in terms of age ther

that desantis, legacy, now, as we see happening during this legislative session, biden can do to desantiso think there is -- it will be interesting to watch how much this sort of social insurance questions -- you've got nikki haley today saying we should raise the retirement age, right? so, it's not like this is some sort of crazy libel by democrats against republicans. there is a republican wants to be president saying we should raise the retirement age. and i think months of getting hammered on this helps the democratic party, to the extent that is the message being hammered into the trump base, that these people want to take these -- take away these beloved programs. >> that's what they need to do. democrats should be focusing on exactly what we just said -- defining ron desantis and trump as extremists. they are both unfit to be president of the united states. do not be fooled here. instead of going after each other or worrying about joe biden being too old, or should there be someone else? no. they need to stay focused on the successes that joe biden has had as president. and there a

things, one, ron desantis is very clearly his biggest threat to the election, but also ron desantis is icing out the rest of the field right now other people who want to potentially get in, donald trump does better if there are several republicans in this race so he needs to go after ron desantis to weaken him and also to maybe put some question marks on whether ron desantis is the guy as other people get in the field, split that vote, benefiting donald trump. >> yeah, as i said, you were there. before last night, donald trump had been poking at ron desantis. last night it seems to me he unloaded, tell us about it. >> right this is the first time on a campaign stage that donald trump went after ron desantis, florida governor, by name. let's take a listen to a little bit of what he said about ron desantis and we'll go through point by point on the back side. >> okay, so, remember this, ron desanctimonious, ron desantis strongly opposed ethanol know that? he was very, very bad on ethanol. he fought it all the way and also fought against social security he wanted to decimate it and vot

endorsing desantis' ngubernatorial campaign, saying ron desantis was dead as a door nail.himself to blame for desantis' popularity? >> certainly, ron desantis' popularity inside the republican nomination race is tied to the fact that there is a chunk of the party, as adam was saying, looking for an alternative to donald trump and they're hanging out around ron desantis right now in large numbers. yes, did donald trump come in and help ron desantis at a moment he needed it in the republican primary for governor in 2018? no doubt about it. but at this moment, that's not the popularity desantis is experiencing or donald trump is talking about. at this moment, his popularity is based on a dissatisfaction with trump at a new level inside the republican party, even though as the poll shows, he remains the clear front-runner in this case. >> guys, thank you very much. >>> just ahead, a massive nor'easter buries parts of new england right now under nearly, get this, three feet of snow. as california is hit with hurricane-force wind gusts. we'll have live reports, right after the b

i don't know that ron desantis has one. >> we don't know. nobody knows desantis.thing. but there's one lane right now in the republican party, that's the trumpy lane, the lane that desantis is trying to fill, as well. nobody else in these polls even measures right now. >> right. and it is early. do you see a lane for nikki haley? [ laughter ] >> next question. >> she's a more traditional -- she's more like mitt romney. it's ridiculous to say that ron desantis reminds him of mitt romney, but nikki haley there is. >> i don't think that's where the republican party is. maybe 15% of the party is her lane. it's just not enough. there is the trump lane, and then there's the kind of desantis, which is the trump plus, right? >> what's trump plus? >> he's got a lot of the bombastic, like, you know, doing a lot of the name calling. the plus is that he's smarter and more competent, and i would argue in some ways crueller. >> how is he crueller in >> i just think the stuff about putting people on buses and sending them off to places -- >> that was a plane. >> it was extremely

what is desantis' view on health care, he doesn't seem to have one. president biden has delivered cheap insulin to u.s. users, good idea or fought. he hardly speaks about inflation, homelessness, environment, nothing even on crime desantis must avoid specifics because specifics might remind his audience florida's homicide numbers are worst than new york's or california's i mean that is something the white house is probably well aware of, am i right >> salveating at the -- chomping at the bit, i love analogies there. i think that's how he got here, though, remember he ran an effective communication strategy basically on twitter and by giving a set of predetermined remarks where he was the strong man or he was pounding his chest about how much he wasn't going to abide by restrictions on covid, the vaccine's terrible, i'm returning sanity here, you know, screw disney, all these things of him being the strong man, like very strong guy and so that's how we got here. that is not going to work. through the course of a competitive primary it shouldn't work, i

why does america keep debating trump and desantis? desantis is a younger trump.rica has been doing this forever and ever. they need to get rid of all the old people in congress and put some young in there. because you have been divided, it will stay divided just like overseas. america eight never going to get it together, but they need to get it together. host: a couple of topics. the polls? guest: most of the other candidates did not break 10% on any consistent basis. the hope of some of these candidates would be that if for whatever reason desantis will not run, if by some stroke of luck he does not, that they would inherit some base of support i simply not being trump. perhaps that is true, but that might be optimistic. in terms of age, there are a lot of people beginning to make the generational change argument. that is a subtle republican argument against trump and also wanting to capitalize on the advantage of running against an octogenarian incumbent which is more difficult to do if you are doing with the candidate almost the same age. if you have a candid

but governor desantis is a well funded and very powerful opponent. he won reelection last year with 60% of the vote and is now armed with what he believes as a political mandate. he has a supermajority in the state legislator. he now controls every aspect of florida's education system from higher education, down to the school boards, to the high school level where he has endorsed and supported candidates across florida. he is preparing for likely 2024 presidential bid, some of the wealthiest donors and the country are cutting him seven figure checks for his presumed campaign. and when it comes to new college, desantis has already earmarked more than $15 million for his changes to the school. this is an asymmetrical fight. >> what is your expectation about what is going to happen? >> i think that he is going to keep pushing forward this aggressive, anti-democratic program. across florida, across the florida university system, and he is going to try to take it national as well. and that is why it is important, if you are somebody who does not agree wit

you know, what ron desantis might take a pass as well.ely whether he's actually going to run. i think it's still possible that he flames out. >> he's a young guy, he might biden's time. tim, the republican grantees, if such people still exist anymore, would come to you in a smoke filled room, and said tim, designed for us, pick for us a candidate who can stop trump, what would you say to them? >> could we get a time machine and bring chris christie back from 2013, before his politically damaged? you know, someone like that, someone tucker, maybe, someone that's on the performance wing. you know, there is no center right kind of republican that can take him on, because the base wants mega. so, you need to combine someone that has the mega credibility, the ability to go toe to toe with him. desantis might have the first time, maga, on the second, side i think will come up short. so, who can bring both together? it's hard to see anyone. >> there is no way tucker carlson would run against donald trump, because he -- and he loves donald trump.

how dare desantis defy the hawks.t poll shows that half of republicans believe that there is too much u.s. support for ukraine. so is this a rift between desantis and the republican voters, or desantis and the republican members of congress, the elected republicans? what do you think? >> i think it's both. i think desantis is clearly reading the political mood here. and what this really points to is a divide within the republican party. i mean, you have people like desantis and donald trump, and he is trying to get those trump voters here, and that's how he is reading the political mood. donald trump saying it's too much. the war in ukraine is too much. and on the other side, you have nikki haley, for example, and pence saying look, you -- this is not a territorial dispute. we have to get involved. the senate republican leader mitch mcconnell saying the same thing. so i think as we watch this primary play out, you're going to see a lot of discussion about the war in ukraine, and what america's responsibilities are. an

desantis and have him call me radical to my face. this semester i'm taking five economics classes, one political science class. i will not take a gender stuies class. at the end of the day we learn what we want to learn here. >> you've been hearing words like woke and critical race theory for years now. i couldn't not tell you what they mean. woke practicing basic empathy, valuing people part of your community, you mean american history? it's so confusing. so it's incredibly frustrating to constantly hear all these buzz words and meaningless things being thrown at us when they have no batsz and don't seek to understand why we're here. i think the bottom line here at new college we do not fear people being educated, do not fear people learning about history and above all do not fear any books. and i think that speaks for itself honestly. >> the new college students are fighting back. they've organized campaigns and asked people to join a coalition to defend their college and educational freedom by visiting savenewcollege.org. but gove

but desantis didn't stop there.hammered the team i'm no drama ron. >> i also think just in terms of my approach to leadership, you know, i get personnel in the government who have the agenda of the people and share our agenda. you bring your own agenda in, you're gone. we are just not going to have that so the way we run the government is, i think, no daily drama, focus on the big picture, and put points on the board and i think that's something that is very important. >> jesse: some republican voters got tired of the trump show, personnel drama in the trump administration for a lot of reasons and desantis is betting on trump fatigue with those people. you never know how that is going to shake out because americans love drama. it just becomes a problem when it gets in the way of governing. trump has to promise it will staff the white house better next time. desantis is going to capitalize on the confidence factor who is the betters about. ron is going to say i know who to hire and fire. i would build a better team.

and ron desantis is not my guy.these polls are early but they are adjudication that it is headed in the wrong direction for ron desantis. >> let's just log on to the fire at this -- tonight and they were reporting on a couple of polls for public opinion strategies from march 21st to the 23rd. but it actually shows that desantis with some early state strength in yes, iowa and new hampshire. and in fact in iowa, desantis is up by eight points. and head to head, even 39-39 in new hampshire. what do you make of that michael? >> look, richard, i think some of those polls are pretty obvious at this point. i say that for this particular reason. ron desantis is a number two guy. he will have to go out after donald trump. in some of the capacity you see his poll numbers increase. you are also going to have to potentially be several other -- attacking him versus trump. because they want to see their poll numbers rise. and now you have a guy who not only has to go against the number one, but you have to go against several othe

four points ahead of desantis.ted 40% of respondents said there is a chance they could change their minds. what does that tell you? >> if donald trump gets indicted, under water against joe biden, maybe there is rational republican voters who really just want to win. >> you think it is the indictment that it comes down to >> i think it could. that is a national poll. ron desantis is very disciplined right now. he has a state by state strategy to get the nomination. donald trump needs to do the same but you saw in iowa on the ethanol issue is a reflection that the primary gets decided state by state, not by national poll. >> do you get a feeling that former president trump is testing out material right now >> i think he's finally waking up he had a terrible first few months on the campaign trail and what you see now is him getting disciplined with his message and he knows somebody has to hit ron desantis and he's probably the only person that can do it. >> thanks. >>> this week, trump's former personal attorney and

, did anybody see desantis, desanctimonious.s very bad on ethanol and he for all the way, it is fight against social security. he wanted to decimate it he wanted the minimu retirement age to be lifted to people that are 70 years old he also voted to severely cu medicare, i will not be cuttin medicare, and i will not b cutting social security. ron was a disciple of paul ryan he is a rhino loser wh currently is destroying fox. we constantly vote against entitlements he reminds me a lot of mit romney >> reminds me a lot of mit romney that is the most epic burn you can levy into this gop that was donald trump in iow last night, taking away florid governor ron desantis in front of the 2024 presidential primary. he's not stopping there. he also had some truly uniqu things to say about some potential rivals, and hi former vice president, mik pence. in an interview with reporters this week, trump said this about pence and the role tha he played on january 6th had mike pence sent the boat back to the legislators, but they would not have

>> i think the former president is lettingen on that he's afraid of desantis.] that's what that is. he's not complaining about anybody else in this situation. i mean, it's afraid, you know, on some level. so that's the thing that i think is so interesting about this. trump is choosing in this way to elevate desantis into being the one guy that he's actually scared of in this field. and i think that that tends to do two things. number one, it's going to make trump's supporters, i think, wear a little-in on some of these lines that -- a little thin on some of these lines, why are you going after ron so much? we voted for both of you. but i also think the other thing it's going to do is send a message to the people who might think about the supporting orr candidates in the race that if you want to stop trump, this is the one guy he seems to have a serious problem with. howard: the trump camp leaped to politico that he's got an oppo file on desantis and that includes his time as a prosecutor when he may have been lenient on child porn cases. is it fair to publish s

on desantis.n mccarthy didn't blink, other candidates didn't blink, but ron descendants blanked. he waited a day, when it came up you took a swipe. i know that swipe caught peoples attention and it seemed a little light hearted but still a hard jab, republican politics though, it was a cut to laundromat. what we are learning is that you really can't do that. we are also learning a couple things about rhonda santas. you are seeing that he is quick of temper. he -- hesitates on the big stage. he has lived his entire governor tory olcott renewables. protected by his seen, not having to -- everything has been -- this is the first strike he has got. he really messed this one up. in terms of republican primary politics. >> to that point, in my view he sound did defenseless and whiny, which for potential politician wants to be president is not a good look or sound. according to the hill, quote, at one point in an interview with piers morgan, desantis mocked the nickname trump used to dried him, saying it

why does america keep debating trump and desantis? desantis is a younger trump.rica has been doing this forever and ever. they need to get rid of all the old people in congress and put some young in there. because you have been divided, it will stay divided just like overseas. america eight never going to get it together, but they need to get it together. host: a couple of topics. the polls? guest: most of the other candidates did not break 10% on any consistent basis. the hope of some of these candidates would be that if for whatever reason desantis will not run, if by some stroke of luck he does not, that they would inherit some base of support i simply not being trump. perhaps that is true, but that might be optimistic. in terms of age, there are a lot of people beginning to make the generational change argument. that is a subtle republican argument against trump and also wanting to capitalize on the advantage of running against an octogenarian incumbent which is more difficult to do if you are doing with the candidate almost the same age. if you have a candid

on a more narrow issue o ukraine, i think that trump an desantis, and especially desantis, they're chasing th voters more than they ar actually leading them. look, the polling data i pretty clear on this that as the months have gone on, mor and more, in the gop base, and kind of grown uneasy about our continued intervention many like the governor o florida sees that, and doesn't want to get on the wrong sid of the primary voters. and yes, that is what they'r focused on right now it's winning that primary. they are not thinking about th broader audience and decide in the election i 2024 >> i guess i wonder, i mean, you seem to be saying that the genesis of this is the base, he's responding to the base. i wonder if there is not a mor creative political calculation here maybe rhonda santa's here' donald trump compares him to mitt romney. he knows what he said, as je points out, where he was not the general and culture wa that he had proposed to be i this day and age how much of this do you thin is him trying to issue a preemptive salvo for the attacks that are going to come his way, courtesy

i can't speak to that. >> desantis went on to say that manhattan d..a.'office was pursuing a political agenda and weaponizing office. that was a very cautious jab from desantis. >> the important thing is he is making the jabs. up to this point, chris christie, mike pence a little bit but this was the first time desantis has thrown a punch. not to do this all on boxing metaphors during march which should only be basketball month. but you saw him taking shots. you know, he walked it back a little bit but i am not so sure the walking back and when he says, sanitizes a little bit, i do not know if that matters with trump. you have an audience of one, and the audience of one is donald trump to see to what extent he response and that it gets interesting. i think we are just at the beginning of this. what we learn from desantis this week is that he is in this fight and he is prepared to take a swing. >> he's trying to have it both ways. also defend him in the hush money payment case but desantis also backtracked on recent comments that he made about ukraine. he

unlike orban desantis is not shutting it down, not yet at least. instead the governor is giving it a complete makeover. desantis wants to transform this tight-knit constitution into a bastion of conservatism, a modhe hopes will be copied all over the country. ginning us now is "the new york times" columnist and author michelle goldberg. michelle, you've been doing great essential reporting on this and you draw the parallels between the authoritarian fascist regime of orban and what's happening down in florida from cracking down on lgbtq rights to censoring political opposition to house bill 999 that pursues drastic changes to higher education. do you think desantis knows he's pulling a page from the autocrats play book? >> i think you see -- i certainly think ron desantis probably knows and admires who viktor orban is. they had a conservative political action conference in hungary. there's a lot of cross pollenization between the right and the republican party. so whether or not he's consciously molding this series of legislative maneuvers on vikto

a desantis is a trump plus. >> you know, i think democrats are kind of betting that governor desantis' focus on culture wars will turn off women, working class voters. do you think moderate swing state voters care very much when he boasts that florida is where woke goes to die? do you think that plays well? >> well, i mean, the only evidence i have to look at on this is what happened in his re-election campaign in florida that he won by 20 points, urban, suburban, rural, exurban, people with college degrees, people without college degrees, independents, i mean, women, men, any way you slice and dice humanity, ron desantis did a pretty darn good job of racking up votes in florida. so i think the message he's been running on -- you know, we've had one test case for it, and it seemed to work. i'll tell you, anderson, the average republican feels surrounded right now. they feel like every large information -- distribution information hub in our society is really at odds with their world view, whether it's corporations, universities, media, you name it, politicians, government, institution

does desantis wear well? do people as we get -- if i were donald trump i'd be really worried about desantis. >> seems like he may be based on how much time he's spending on him. sorry, erica. >> no, i would agree. i think you're right. i think it then leads us to this question, so if it is trump and desantis right now but there's a chance as you point out, david, that for all of the excitement about ron desantis maybe that doesn't work out. is there anyone else you see in the wings who could then step in or does that then just hand this nomination to donald trump? >> well, that's a really, really good question. i think it could easily hand the nomination to donald trump and then he would reach out and possibly get nikki haley to be his vice presidential candidate for some obvious reasons. she has some upside potential that i don't think has been tapped into yet. she's one of the more -- i've done events with her and i must tell you she's attractive, she's interesting, she thinks well on her feet. so i can see

trump going after desantis on social security and desantis all of a sudden to fox news saying that heefforts to help ukraine, calling it a territorial dispute. explain all that. >> yeah, mean i mean it's wild to see those numbers. it shows you the division between the two front-runners in the republican party. one of them is pandering to the base which is trumpism. i think that trump is still kind of trying to claim that he represents the forgotten republican, so to speak, the working class, i would say that is his bread and butter. that's the message that he used all along to get elected i think the first time around. i think desantis is trying to establish himself. that was the entry into the foreign policy field. i have to say that as a national security person from my perspective, it's horrifying to me that you have two potential front-runners for the republican nomination espousing proputin and standing against ukraine. i think we have fallen very far from the reagan party i would say. i'm glad that ron desantis put himself on the record. it's a slap to the courage of the people

i think desantis is okay for now.o stop and he'll ultimately have to engage him. but he is not even a candidate yet as you pointed out and it doesn't appear to be hurting him. >> what really matters is what voters or caucus goers in iowa think about this, right? this is what some of them outside of trump's speech said. >> true trump voters are going to stay with trump. he's already proven himself. so we know what he is capable of doing. and ron desantis an awesome governor. i love him as the governor. i just think it's not his time. >> i think mr. desantis should wait his turn and he is a good governor. you know, great. i think he would make a great president as well but he has to wait his turn and let president trump do this again. >> when you look at this new cnn polling, ron, trump is holding this slim lead over desantis with republican voters, 40% to 36%. if you are ron desantis, what are you thinking when you hear that? >> well, look. this poll, the cnn poll out today is better for desantis than some of the other

there is still more to come tonight, including a trip to desantis world, which, if governor ron desantisding well beyond florida. that's next. that's next. there's a different way to treat hiv. it's every-other-month, injectable cabenuva. for adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete, long-acting hiv treatment you can get every other month. cabenuva helps keep me undetectable. it's two injections, given by my healthcare provider, every other month. it's one less thing to think about while traveling. hiv pills aren't on my mind. a quick change in my plans is no big deal. don't receive cabenuva if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking certain medicines, which may interact with cabenuva. serious side effects include allergic reactions post-injection reactions, liver problems, and depression. if you have a rash and other allergic reaction symptoms, stop cabenuva and get medical help right away. tell your doctor if you have liver problems or mental health concerns, and if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or considering pregnancy. some of the most common side effects in

ron desantis says he supports it. i was talking to a republican strategist who said that type of messaging and platforming work in a primary. it is not necessarily going to work in a general election. >> i talked to larry hogan and asa hutchinson this week. they said the next nominee has to be someone who can broaden the appeal. beyond the maga base. is there a moderate candidate? who republicans would get behind? is there anyone who stands out? >> that is the challenge. what candidate can get through a republican primary and also when a general election? that is the challenge right now. i talked a lot of republica on capitol hill. every has different ideas. a lot of people want someone other than trump. they are looking for something else. he still has a lot of support among the days. we analyze this. trump-endorsed over 160 people in the midtes. people are starting to look elsewhere. who is that person? >> we always talk about the trump lane and the non-trump lane. they are all running for the same candidates. excep

some of them were the facts about ron desantis he mentioned ethanol it was in 2017 when ron desantisess and he voted and co-sponsored legislation to roll back the renewable fuel standard which requires the u.s. fuel supply have a certain percentage of the fuel supply consist of renewable fuels, that includes ethanol, which is a big industry, of course, here in iowa for donald trump to note, he did take this tact eight years ago ted cruz, who had a similar position as desantis, won the iowa caucus. that's not enough for donald trump this go around what's notable is this was the first time that donald trump took on ron desantis by name from the campaign stage. let's be frank, it's not even the first inning ron desantis isn't in the batter's box he is trying on a uniform to see whether he wants to jump in or not. but donald trump doesn't have a batter to bat against. what you saw last night in front of 2,500 is the fact that donald trump hit him on social security and medicare reform. you heard him there. it suggests he was a disciple of paul ryan, back to the republican party of old. f

. >>> desantis trump split is on display. this as cnn uncovered comments by a new appointee of governor desantis with an animati-gay conspiracy room. >>> alex marquardt is near the front lines in ukraine. alex, bakhmut is significant. >> reporter: russian forces are trying to encircle ukrainian forces but holding out. this is a very tough fight for the ukrainians that got tougher with a ukrainian bridge on the main supply route that ukraine uses to get to the front line. essentially the only paved road ukraine can use to back up the forces. we were on that road yesterday. we showed it to our viewers here on this program. we saw all kinds of military vehicles going to and from that front line so now, if ukraine wants to supply its forces, if i wants to withdrawal, if it wants to extract civilians, it's going to have to do so on dirt roads and across open fields that makes things a lot more difficult, a lot more dangerous. brianna, we heard from the head of the vogner group, the russian mercenariries leading russia's fight, he

so desantis had to backtrack.he signed a new bill that leaves disney in charge of paying local taxes, but to oversee the development area, it appoints a board of desantis cronies, like one of the proponents behind the "don't say ll, a businessman who runs a right-wing an ministry, an attorney who runs the orlando chapter of the federalist society, and the huntero shot b. now, desantis put on his smug face and defended his new bill at a presser. >> today the corporate kingdom finally comes to an end. there's a new sheriff in town and accountability will be the order of the day. >> stephen: yes, the kind of accountability tht the core of his book, "i puked in the tea cups." it's been over two years since the january 6th riot, and the government is still rounding up the perpetrators. yesterday, the fbi finally nabbed one they were looking tion panda" becausee looking he wore a giant panda head while breaching the capitol building. let's check him out. there ya go. looking like a roadie for the band at chuck e. cheese

there's also the reality, too, that desantis isn't running for anything yet.e pieces together, and trying to make this on the fly. at the same time, he's not an official candidate. he's not on the campaign trail every day, pounding a message. but he's getting front runner treatment. in all of these polls, even as he's slipping, he is always polling as the number two. we'll see if that changes come june. i think when it comes to differentiating with trump, all of these people have the benefit of hindsight of '15 and '16. he was still the nominee. i don't know if that helps or hurts them. it's certainly what they know now. >> you do have a little bit of history to educate yourself on, which could be a good thing. jake sherman, we're talking about donald trump, even when you talk about another candidate, we're talking about donald trump, and we're talking about donald trump all the time because donald trump is always the headline maker in the news. right now, it's all about these indictments. i find it notable that when you ask gop senators, most of them, about d

i wonder where at least someon like ron desantis?the cold, alicia, i've alway suspected that desantis woul not run against trump. or challenge trump unless it was a situation wher trump is literally unable to run. as dr. ben-ghiat said, - he spent the last six year setting the stage for this moment in maga called speak, th indictment that's forthcomin or should be forthcoming is th moment that the deep state wil have tried to silence thei cult leader. trump has been laying th predicate for this moment. i think it hurts desantis, we've also seen it hurt him in the public opinion polls he's dropped significantly since trump has begu billingham and engaging in a essence emasculating have. i think this indictment will have the effect for trump of helping him in the republica primary. a sad as it. mayb >> you are not alone - desantis, i want to think abou -- going to stick to it and amortize it, because it' basically the same speech, wherever he goes, where he calls florida a blueprint fo the rest of the nation that so-called blueprint in

, and desantis polling withers. candidacy, he appears to be pivoting on a subject that made him a subject of criticism. he called the war in ukraine a territorial dispute and not vital to american interests. now in a new interview with piers morgan previewed in the "new york post," desantis said he was mischaracterized and vladimir putin is a war criminal who needs to be held accountable. joining me is chief communications adviser for former house speaker paul ryan, and nbc political analyst brendan buck. do you think this is because his polls suddenly tanked? >> i don't know if it is. and actually, look, i think it is publicly the most popular position to have in the republican primary is to be isolationist. the party has changed quite a bit recently. i think it's just the fact that he doesn't like being criticized. ron desantis has lived a pretty charmed life in florida. he doesn't get any republican scrutiny ever, and this is probably the first time we've seen it since he's been on the national stage that people

>> the thing to understand about the voters and desanti is that they like desantis right now.y like what he is done in florida, the culture war stuff but the relationship with hi is very shallow. they have seen him on tv yelling at teenagers and masks and fighting with disney, an they like all that may think he's good but they don't have deep relationship with him that's the difference betwee him and trump. trump, the relationship with him goes deep. good, bad, ugly, they know i all about trump. it's baked in, and he stil holding on to at least a ver hard-core 30% of the party while there is a big chunk tha wants to move on to desantis he's got to live up to the hyp they don't really know him that >> the thing to understand about the voters and desanti is that they like desantis right now. they like what he is done in florida, the culture war stuff but the relationship with hi is very shallow. they have seen him on tv yelling at teenagers and masks and fighting with disney, an they like all that may think he's good but they don't have deep relationship with him that's the diff

was not happy with what desantis said.ing the law to indictment president trump is a manufactured crisis, referencing what you said, and isn't a real issue. pure weakness and now we know why he was silent all weekend. >> this is the wedge that the trump universe will drive and comes out of that america first language. i was just at cpac they talk about the doj and fbi and defunding them as priorities for their political movement. so trump there is trying to stoke that lane of the base to say, although desantis has really reached out to you and kind of made overtures to the maga wing, this is not your candidate. the candidate only for these folks is donald trump. but that's not the majority of the republican base. desantis is trying to pull off some of those people. but he knows that really where he's going to make his bread and butter will have to be the republican electorate at large and you have him not fully coming to trump's defense. let's remember, he is unique in this race. he was not in the last administration. he m

clearly, ron desantis and the former president, i guess ron desantis more is dancing around trump not to directly engage. how long can that go on for? >> not much longer. as long as he's in this audition to be president until he formally announces which we're not expecting until at least may or something that you'll see more of this. him testing his message out on the road and it was a pretty, you know, large audience. the reagan library, 1,300 people sold out doing these stops as part of his book tour but clearly testing out his message. this weekend is probably the sharpest display we've seen of that, of the contrast between the two of them. you know, desantis' comment that really stood out where he talked about in his administration in florida they never had leaks. they never had palace intrigue, that they executed their agenda with surgical precision. making those comments, basically saying this is not what happened when trump was in office trying to appeal to the trump voters while making sure he distinguishes himself from trump. >> it was interesting, van, that desantis when he