i've been teaching bass, there's a dhs program called -- it's approved by dhs called patriot. i have another training course called hide, but these programs are given maybe a few days of training, and then people go off and do their thing. there's no follow up on how successful is it. i think people are getting good ideas and techniques, butst the knot -- but it's not done in a way that can be measured and followed up on, and i think that needs to be done. >> and these programs are all from dhs also? >> there's one that's approved. in order, it's approved for funding. and, but they're not dhs programs. >> okay. so they're funded, but they're trained and then they're kind of sent out, and there's no true follow up, is that what you're saying? is. >> yeah. there's no collection of data about success or failures or effectiveness. it's, like a lot of law enforcement training, you know, you're probably aware of this that you go for a class, you sit there for a week, you get a certificate, you walk out the door, and that's the end of it. unfortunately, that just falls in line with a

tsa and dhs's -- unless tsa and the is the h dia chase -- dhs plays no role in the development of the s.p.o.t. program i see compelling reason to their attendance here today. the nexus between science and operations is vitally important to understanding how programs were developed, why there are problems, while there are problems and how they can improve. if tsa and dhs are in fact making a claim that science and research plays no role in the formation of the program whatsoever, in this program should be shut down immediately for lacking any scientific races and deems little more than snake oil. if dhs does not value this committee's role in overseeing the agency, and if tsa does not value absentee's scientific advice, there are a number of legislative options to this committee -- that this committee could employ to change that impression. i will also note that dhs is an agency official to testify before this committee from customs and border protection and the coast guard. i find it odd that in this instance, tsa would not want to talk about this program. it makes me wonder what they

this is the conclusion of the dhs inspector general. which they published yesterday refuting these allegations. this is what the investigator said. after reviewing information and interviewing experts, we determined the significant request review process did not prohibit the eventual release of information. it goes on to say none of this information demonstrated the office of the secretary prohibited the release of information under foia. obtained creditsttemp this assessment. no officer said the request is for disadvantaged because of their political party or area of interest. our committee has the great opportunity to help federal agencies as they strive to achieve president obama's high standard. we also have an obligation to conduct oversight that is responsible and fair. i and the long run, as i have said many times, we are just as concerned about government running well as you are. it is just as important to us as it is to you. because we are americans also. we want our constituents to be served well. that is what this is about. t

dhs has a substantial caseload., he received 103,093 foia requests or 18% of the federal government 557,825 requests. in fiscal year 2010, the number of requests increased by 26% to 130,098. under the guidance of the chief foia offset from the chief staff requested privacy office and had orders office while most of the department's major components processed requests under the guidance of their own officers. the privacy office also had the most proactive disclosure which increases the department level of trans and he will potentially decreasing the number of foia requests at the agency receives. however, despite of the positive finance, there were certain aspects of the dhs process that caused concern. specifically determined that the office of secretary's involvement in the process created inefficiencies that have full implementation of the process. although components have been required to notify the office of the secretary of searching cases since 2005, the house he did not require that the office of the secretar

and the policy of dhs that the program is nonvoluntary. by 2014 there will be some technological changes that will make it uniform nationwide. we do view that as -- one, there's some legal issues that might suggest that it is mandatory. two would be the kind of the uniformity issue. it's the reverse argument of 1070 in many ways. the federal government stepped up so we won't want a patchwork of state enforcement laws. the same logic applies to -- we don't want to let local jurisdictions decide immigration policy and there are many of the same arguments there. not only that, they are procedural questions as to who can decide the optout? would it be the state? would it be the sheriff? would it be the county? it's uniform and it will role out nationwide. we want to work with local communities. we want to -- i think it's the department's position largely is that victims in law enforcement organizations and i know some are represented here today don't arrest victims, they don't arrest witnesses. absent a criminal arrest and a booking and a taki

that is not something that dhs can solve. that was the point of it from the beginning, to take away discussion that could be used by law-enforcement officers. we try to proceed on that basis. it will leave some hard cases underside of the line, but that is where we need to proceed. there could be better ways to exercise discretion in the system. we may not have overall legislation, but it is very easy to tack it onto an appropriation bill and exercised discretion by agencies can triggered legislative reaction. some of the more ambitious suggestions i fear would trigger a legislative reaction. we had something like that in the 1996 act. immigration judges could exercise, to let someone state even though they had deportable offense. well was in the conference committee, the exercise -- the issue decision the key members of the conference committee did not like it and they cut that way beyond what it was. i offer that as a cautionary note to think about that we need to keep our eye on the long run game. a key part of the effort

this is the conclusion of the dhs inspector general. which they published yesterday refuting these allegations. this is what the investigator said. after reviewing information and interviewing experts, we determined the significant request review process did not prohibit the eventual release of information. it goes on to say none of this information demonstrated the office of the secretary prohibited the release of information under foia. obtained creditsttemp this assessment. no officer said the request is for disadvantaged because of their political party or area of interest. our committee has the great opportunity to help federal agencies as they strive to achieve president obama's high standard. we also have an obligation to conduct oversight that is responsible and fair. i and the long run, as i have said many times, we are just as concerned about government running well as you are. it is just as important to us as it is to you. because we are americans also. we want our constituents to be served well. that is what this is about. t

this matter could have been resolved in july 2010 when dhs first was confronted with allegations of political interference with foia process. the came from the associated press and others to look into this. the chief privacy officer we believe misled committee staff in 2010 briefings. if not for whistleblower, the truth of the matter may never have come to light. that whistle-blower was asked to clear her office, lost her job, and title and responsibilities and was moved to a smaller narrower th you responsibility the day after she testified. that concerns us the department is not taking their responsibility to the hard- working men and women in the department to this day. the truth of this matter is the secretary's political staff did

in the letter from the wildlife service to dhs, an endangered species, they asked the border control to stop doing road dragging to cut signs near the refuge. can you tell us what cutting signs is and why it's an important tool? what are the implications if the border patrol cannot use this tool? >> yes, sir. as i alluded to earlier in the testimony, sign cutting is one of the most preferred and effective techniques that the border control has developed over the years. sign cutting affectively requires that a road be parallel to the border. if that's the area that you want to protect, they call it a drag road because they are frequently smoothed over by one method or another. so that evidence of illegal

dhs agreed with the recommendation. as other panel members will note in their statement, the scientific consensus does not yet exist on whether principles can be reliably used for counter-terrorism purposes in an airport environment. it is important to note that the current validation effort will not answer several important questions. for example, how long can behavior detection officers observe passengers without becoming fatigued? what is the optimal number of officers needed? to what extent our behavior and appearance the right mix? should the list be larger or smaller? while mr. willis will report it is nine times more effective than random screening, the results of this analysis have yet to be shared or independently reviewed. a report highlighted some difficulties that tsa faced in capturing and analyzing the information that was collected at airports. we recommended that tsa better collect information to help connect the dots on passengers who may pose a threat to the aviation system. for example, we recommended

but dhs cannot solve that problem. some people stood against it in the state legislature and they could not make the case. the public stood against that in the street -- very strong way. this is not something that dhs can solve. the point from beginning was to take away the discretion, check everyone and make a decision as to which one will be followed up on. >> it is emphasized, leaving some faces on the side of the line. there could be much better ways to exercise discretion in the system. i would share that view in the near future of comprehensive immigration legislation. it is easy to tax writers on to appropriations bills and exercise discretion in certain ways to trigger legislative reaction. some of the more ambitious suggestions for broad use of prosecutorial discretion would trigger legislative action. to elsie is a form of discretion that immigration judges could exercise even if it was a deportable offense. that was before 96 pirie & there were some efforts to come back to that. the board of appeals issued a

that is not something that dhs can solve. that was the point of it from the beginning, to take away discussion that could be used by law-enforcement officers. we try to proceed on that basis. we try to proceed on that basis. it will leave some hard cases underside of the line, but that is where we need to proceed. there could be better ways to exercise discretion in the system. we may not have overall legislation, but it is very easy to tack it onto an appropriation bill and exercised discretion by agencies can triggered legislative reaction. some of the more ambitious suggestions i fear would trigger a legislative reaction. we had something like that in the 1996 act. immigration judges could exercise, to let someone state even though they had deportable offense. offense. well was in the conference committee, the exercise -- the issue decision the key members of the conference committee did not like it and they cut thati offer that as a cautionary note to think about that we need to keep our eye on the long run game. create t

when it was time to go back to dhs -- i decided i needed to be more engaged in the public debate. there's some things you cannot do as a public servant that you can do on the outside. that's how i ended up at the immigration policy center. we're all about trying to provide the kind of facts and information that helped shape the debate in the way that it supports the idea that immigration is important to america. we are part of the american immigration council, formally known as the american immigration law foundation. we work very closely with lawyers, including one of the sponsors of tonight's events. when i talk about compehensive immigration reform to people, i often like to move away from the movie analogy to the game analogy. think about it as a rubik's cube. if you get one side right, it probably means the other sites are screwed up. you cannot think about immigration as the one issue. there are so many that interact with each other. we often focus on legalization because it's such an overwhelming issue in many ways. we have so many people that are here without the appropria

dhs attorneys i know are hard- working, dedicated professionals. the report has hemlines but this report does not describe the attorney i know -- attorneys i know and work with. i believe we have cooperated and acted in good faith. thank you for this opportunity to respond. >> i would like you to finish what you were saying. the chairman talks about fairness and people's reputations and demotions. there have been serious allegations made here. i do not know what the truth is. i would like for you to able -- be able to answer the question. >> thank you. she competed for a promotion, a new position i was given by the department demonstrating the importance of foia. it was a laborious and detailed process. she was not selected and that was confirmed by the office of personnel management. >> where was that decision made? >> the initial selection of the proposed ses was december 17. she was informed she was -- had not received a promotion on january 10. we were working on him on board -- working on onboarding. it was not released from her department unt

but agents at airports across the country are directed by dhs policy to pull aside people born in particular countries, regardless of their citizenships and to travel to particular places and use their vulnerability at the airport to get as much information as possible. rep conyers two days ago requested a federal investigation into religious profiling at the border. this is a ubiquitous experience in the muslim community and san francisco airport is reportedly one of the worst places for this occurring. that is all i have? supervisor avalos: by rule, you do. i will ask you question. perhaps that may help. maybe you can speak to the fact that these actions are taking place without criminal predicate and by the asian law caucus is concerned. >> i have dozens of clients who have been approached by the fbi. some are approached by san francisco or other local law enforcement officers working in the joint terrorism task force. they are working as to san francisco officers assigned to the joint task force. my colleague is going to speak about this. to give you a taste of the things we have been se

i think there were great strides made during the secretary chertoff's time at dhs. negotiating, yu know, agreements, particularly in europe. and i think secretary napolitano has continued to work on trying to becae they recognize that a big part of that is going to having to to rely upon our foreign partners out there to ensure those passengers arriving from a foreign country has been screened, have been checked, they have been provided with the proper information to run the data, to see as we said, someone use that dirty old word a while ago, profile. we are targeting people that we should be targeting, and the other 99.99% can pass through the check point and get on their way and not go through that hassle. but it is about -- but, you know, a lot of these countries are very hesitant because of sovereignty issues, legal issues, of being able to provide the information that we feel we need for us to be feel comfortable that that peson is a quote, unquote, trusted traveler. and so they are still working on that. that's a big part of the solution. as i said before, cu

additionally, interior, agriculture and dhs have found an agency environment and cultural stewardshiptraining task force to build on and then to -- whose patrol i could include federal land. collaboration is taking place with the border patrol in the field. the border patrol in cooperation with injury and agriculture a study and public lands liaison agent position for each of its 20 sectors. into your land measures community and collaborate on issues of mutual interest. in addition border patrol agents frequently conduct joint patrols of interior law enforcement personnel on interior lands. this close coordination provide staff with training and orientation on each agency's mission while enhancing homeland security activities and resource related investigations. a few examples are a few sample of the ongoing collaborative dialogue and strong relationship that interior agencies and personnel have developed with our colleagues in the border patrol. the deployment of border patrol personnel, equipment and infrastructure along the southwest border has led to significant improvements in bo

i think there were great strides made during the secretary chertoff's time at dhs. negotiating, you know, agreements, particularly in europe. and i think secretary napolitano has continued to work on trying to because they recognize that a big part of that is going to having to to rely upon our foreign partners out there to ensure those passengers arriving from a foreign country has been screened, have been checked, they have been provided with the proper information to run the data, to see as we said, someone use that dirty old word a while ago, profile. we are targeting people that we should be targeting, and the other 99.99% can pass through the check point and get on their way and not go through that hassle. but it is about -- but, you know, a lot of these countries are very hesitant because of sovereignty issues, legal issues, of being able to provide the information that we feel we need for us to be feel comfortable that that person is a quote, unquote, trusted traveler. and so they are still working on that. that's a big part of the solution. as i said before

the previous mayor did a deal with dhs.ht now as we talk about this, this gentleman calls its economic development. when a political official pays back a political contributor to build a hotel or unneeded arena at taxpayer expense, when an elected official gives away taxpayer commons and sells them to cover his debt for his staff, the recall is a lot better than the guillotine. host: we will leave it there. guest: is covering some things i am not aware of in houston. i am executive with 41 years' experience. i run a national organization in washington, d.c. my salary is paid for by the dues of the cities that have been a part of it since 1932. -- thehe city's pay the cities pay the dues. they are paying for the documentary not to throw the mayors out. do you see a conflict there? guest: we're trying to point out that mayors need to examine -- we're not against recalls. we just think that mayors need to examine the recall statutes. we believe the threshold is too low. the recall can take place and cost the city a lot of mone

those of us who remember the beatles song come i really like see alert, that describes dh kernel pool the eternal instinct that every human being wants to see. once the cd creator, know the creator. and it's that journey. to the extent that jerusalem or any pilgrimage site is that it tends to open up the possibility we may see that they are. one of the things we have learned, that i have learned, as expressed by r-romeo pitts says they went to the makkah and couldn't find him there. i went to jerusalem and could find in there. finally, i looked to my own heart and there i found god. i think the easiest is diagnostic who is searching for the ground about being, the absolute consciousness, absolute love that people speak about. that is my response to the atheistic response. .. >> and not about a god. and so i think in the context of atheism there's no assurance that even atheists will not fall prey to the very dynamics that you describe as being so destructive. there's no protection from that even in the absence of god. it can still be reproduced. >> right. >> so -- >> well said. >> i h

in closing, i want to recognize the collective efforts that interior, dhs, and grouted have taken tomeet the intent of the 2006 inner agency mou and the shared commitment by our departments to accomplishing the missions of our agencies. chairman chaffetz and bishop, that concludes my statement. i'll answer any questions you may have. >> thank you, mr. jensen? >> thank you. members of the subcommittees, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to provide the didn't's views on border security on national forest system lands. you have my written testimony for the record, but i want to emphasize some key points. first, the department and the forest service take very seriously the needs to secure our nation's border. we fully support as it is in our common interest that we address illegal u.s. border crossings, the smuggling of contra band and people across the border, the crimes committed against those smuggled, and other unlawful activities. through all of this, we have to recognize and empathize with the plight of undocumented foreign nationals seeking a better life, ye

dhs just completely -- >> reporter:s with one window of hundreds. >> absolutely. >> reporter: he sayincredibly difficult challenge. >> the police have not a job to get the public in, close up to the wedding but they have to keep the people who want to cause disorder and damage like we have seen here away from the royal wedding. it could be immensely disruptive. >> reporter: the big problem for the police is getting enough evidence to stop the anarchists doing something before they get to the wedding route. there is talk of using stop and search powers, the problem is, who do they stop and search? experts say intelligence before the big day will be crucial. anarchist websites are already humming with references to the wedding. >> there are plans which are being passed around online in encrypted e-mails which the government cannot hack to basically disrupt the procession route, as well. >> reporter: knowing exactly where to deploy riot police is tough. the protesters could strike at almost any location in central london. >> there's chatter out there. no real intelligence but bear in mi

seeking to enter the united states, the creation of a consolidated terrorist watch list, the dedicated dhs and steve and local law enforcement employees all to surf recognition. but even in these areas of progress, improvements are needed. biometric screening must be expanded to include foreign nationals leaving the the united states. screening technology must be improved to keep up with changing threats and to ensure that the safest possible effective screening equipment is deployed. i hope this year we can expand protection against lawsuits for citizens to report suspicious behavior indicating potential terrorist activities. we must also pass legislation to ensure that the key u.s. intelligence officials are consulted falling a foreign interest detention in the united states that did not happen in the case of farruca of tumult followed. finally, i continue to have deep concern that this administration refuses to acknowledge that violent islamists ideologies is the ideologies that fuels' these attacks. the administration should have an overarching national strategy to counter this growing

seeking to enter the united states, the creation of a consolidated terrorist watch list, the dedicated dhsrf recognition. but even in these areas of progress, improvements are needed. biometric screening must be expanded to include foreign nationals leaving the the united states. screening technology must be improved to keep up with changing threats and to ensure that the safest possible effective screening equipment is deployed. i hope this year we can expand protection against lawsuits for citizens to report suspicious behavior indicating potential terrorist activities. we must also pass legislation to ensure that the key u.s. intelligence officials are consulted falling a foreign interest detention in the united states that did not happen in the case of farruca of tumult followed. finally, i continue to have deep concern that this administration refuses to acknowledge that violent islamists ideologies is the ideologies that fuels' these attacks. the administration should have an overarching national strategy to counter this growing threat within our own country. ten years ago, nearly 3,

treasury and dhs are working with pakistan on important matters related to terrorism finance and border security. even as we've endured serious challenges to the relationship, some of which have made headlines we continued civilian and military assistance throughout the country and solidified our cooperation. pakistan today is more willing to take on extremist groups that directly threaten pakistani targets such as military bases intelligence offices and police stations. the ttp, the pakistani taliban, is a prime example of such groups. nevertheless we continue to press pakistan for increased action against that group and to engage other allies on the dangers posed by taba and encourage all parties to take appropriate action against that group. yemen. well obviously we're talking here about a country smack in the middle of a transition and in the headlines every day but to put things in perspective let me back up a bit. the gravity of the aqap threat was clear to the obama administration from day one and we've been focused on yemen since the outset. in the spring of 2009 the administrat

they certainly have with the ftc, some of the division's stood up within at dhs, and also to your point about the law is changing -- laws changing, there are bills pending right now that do focus on this issue and will help move in the right direction. the difficulty here it is that there is not one single solution. we are getting attacked from all sides. all of these things together have to be done in a coordinated fashion. i think the other thing to point out is that, from a legislative perspective, we can legislate as much as we want in the united states, but when there is activity overseas, that resolution only goes so far. if people just attacking from overseas and we don't have the ability to get at them, it is a very difficult problem. host: anne arundel county, maryland. paul is on the line for independents. caller: good morning. i'm actually a student here in anne arundel, and i am working on my information security degree. what you think in the future, if it becomes necessary, the possibility of having an anti- cyberattack team that goes out and actively searches for cyberatta

they certainly have with the ftc, some of the division's stood up within at dhs, and also to your pointut the law is changing -- laws changing, there are bills pending right now that do focus on this issue and will help move in the right direction. the difficulty here it is that there is not one single solution. we are getting attacked from all sides. all of these things together have to be done in a coordinated fashion. i think the other thing to point out is that, from a legislative perspective, we can legislate as much as we want in the united states, but when there is activity overseas, that resolution only goes so far. if people just attacking from overseas and we don't have the ability to get at them, it is a very difficult problem. host: anne arundel county, maryland. paul is on the line for independents. caller: good morning. i'm actually a student here in anne arundel, and i am working on my information security degree. what you think in the future, if it becomes necessary, the possibility of having an anti- cyberattack team that goes out and actively searches for cyberattack t

for example, dhs hhs and the department of defense are leading the implementation of the president's executive order 13527 to establish capabilities to dispense medical countermeasures during a large-scale biological attack. those departments have broken down barriers and for the first time we have seen the hhs and they fema planners working alongside not just one another but with state and local public health and emergency managers to solve what we now are some very serious challenging requirements of rapid distribution of medical countermeasures that would be necessary to save lives. in addition, as we saw during the earthquake in haiti, and are seeing in the current response to events in japan, many departments and agencies from states and usaid, hhs, dod, the nuclear regulatory commission, the department of energy are enhancing international cooperation and collaboration on the ground throughout the disaster management assistance. we will study every aspect of the response in japan so that we can learn lessons from these unprecedented earthquake, tsunamis and nuclear emergencies.

for example,dhs, hhs, and the department of defense called leading the president's executive order to establish capabilities to dispense medical countermeasures during a large scale biological attack. they have broken down barriers and for the first time, we see hhs, fema, dod, and others working alongside not just each other but with state and local public health and emergency managers to solve what we know are some very serious and challenging countermeasures would be necessary to save lives. in addition, as we saw during the earthquake in haiti in nursing in the current response to events in japan, hhs, dod it, the nrc, the department of energy, are enhancing international cooperation on the ground through active disaster management assistance. we will study every aspect of the response in japan so we can learn lessons from the unprecedented earthquake, tsunami, and a nuclear emergency. beyond the ppd, we're seeking to be smarter in our approach by identifying a limiting steps and planning appropriately, reducing decision points before disaster strikes, reducing points of failure t

for example, dhs, hhs, and the department of defense are implementing the president's executive order 13527 to dispense countermeasures' during a large scale biological attack. those departments have broken down barriers, and for the first time we have seen hhs, cdc, and dod planners working side not just -- working alongside not just teach others, but local leaders and managers to get rapid distribution of the countermeasures that would be necessary to save lives. in addition, as we saw in that earthquake in haiti, and as we are seeing in the current response to japan, many agencies -- hhs, dod, the nuclear regulatory commission, the department of energy -- are enhancing collaboration on the ground to active management assistance. our response is so we can learn lessons of the unprecedented earthquake and emergencies. we are seeking and smarter approach and reducing decision points through a strike. reducing failure at your emergency application. on the outcome of front and the establishing well understood protocols for communication and coordination and practicing them through exerc

in a letter to dhs regarding the wildlife refuge, the fish and wildlife service asked the patrol to cut signs near the refuge. can you explain to us what sign cutting is and why it's an important tool, and what's the implications if the border patrol cannot do this or use this tool? >> yes, sir. as i alluded to earlier in my testimony, sign cutting 1 -- is one of the most preferred and effective techniques that the border patrol developed over the years. sign cutting effectively requires that a road be parallel to the border if that's the area that you want to protect. they call it a drag road because they are frequently smoothed over by one method or another so that evidence of illegal entry is easily vived by the -- identified by the agents that are working that area. one of the critical things of that you have to have access. you can't effectively do sign cutting or drag roads away from the border. you've lost the frontal then where these entries occur, and they spread out over large, large distances so if we're not able to use that technique, we're losing a very, very valuable tool

one of the things has been ongoing with the fbi and the department of health -- excuse me, dhs homeland security, has been the matter, i'm going back to the terrorist issue, a matter of lexicon. there's whether this is you don't call people jihadists or islam is because it gives credibility to their ideological foundation for their action. the other school of thought says if we're going to defeat a terrorist enemy we need to at least be able to call it by its true name, understanding its ideology, its motivation of the people, what makes it tick so we can effectively deal with it. where does the fbi come down in this matter of terminology? >> well, we call it as we see it. i understand there is some discussion out there, but nobody has ever told us how we are supposed to describe terrorists or terrorist groups. and we tried to get the most clear definition, but i call it what it is. >> would you agree that when accurate description of some of these groups like al qaeda for example, is islamist? >> absolutely. >> extremists. islamist extremist is accurate definition. >> nobody, just to b