diane swonk, companies are still shedding jobs but not as quickly.so, relatively speaking, better than expected, right? >> certainly better than expected. we also saw an increase in the hours worked which is one of those big precursors to hiring. firms are much more likely to take the employees they have and work them longer hours before they actually make that commitment to actually hiring workers. the other good news in the data was an increase in wages. that was really reflective in part on the higher men mum wage and a bounceback from some of the weakest wage numbers we've seen in the post world war 2 period. >> so jim ellis when you look at particular industries or sectors, where were the losses this time? does anything jump out to you as looking better this time around? >> there's nothing that really looks radically better. i mean we are happy to see that in the areas that have continued to go down and have been going down for quite some time lick manufacturing, they, the numbers were not any worse. in other words, this is less bad. and that's

mike cuggino is manager of the permanent portfolio funds with more than $4 million in funds, and diane swonk who is chief economist at mesirow capital. diane, they said that the financial conditions are leveling out and further financial conditions are improving further. do you agree? >> i agree. they certainly are leveling out and they certainly didn't say they were soaring ahead, did they? >> no. >> well, saying we are seeing some currents in the economy, and good news and bad news. the armageddon scenario is behind us, but we are moving into a recovery, but it is fragile at best, and that left the backdoor open to continue the quantitated easing if necessary, and expand the balance sheet, although i it would like as we continue into move into 2010 to reduce the ballness will sheet and not raise the rates for quite a while, but certainly accommodate it. >> well, what about it, mike? i think that at some point there needs to ban exit strategy, they will need to do that and the fed will need to raise the rates. when does that start? >> yeah, i agree. they took maybe the first baby steps in t

. >> diane swonk did youee anythinghat jumped out at you in rms it of particar industrys or sectors?>> well,he two sectors that have been the stars so farand sort of continue to shopretty much gains throughout t 19 month of the receson were dical, health care and educatio and those two sectors continue to show gai. m concerned about that. a i think it underscores some of th concerns we all have out the headwind wes sll face in the.s. ecomy. real estate revenues have been cut dramatically. pink slips have ben handed out. and thse layoffsor teachers won't show up until we get back to scho in le august and early september. we've also got lot of people lsing health-care verage. andwhen they lose health-carecoverage it is putting a l of burde on the costs ofmergency room visits on hospitalsment and we know hospitals e beginning to loff a lot of admistrative personnel. they have to absorb those extra cost. ery percent increase in the unemployment rate is another million peopl without insurance as well that's nothing to say of what pele do in tms of cutti back on their insurance covege when

diane swonk, rick santelli up in maine, steve liesman with mimco paul mcculley. h -- you know, since you didn't get an invite, diane, i'll start with you. let's at least -- >> i did. and dave actually e-mailed me in between and reiterated the invite for labor day. >> shamed into it. anyway, 240's pretty good, huh? >> i am -- i am absolutely wonderfully pleased. it's -- actually, with the increase in the income numbers as well. this is good news. i'm a little worried about the health and education components, which have been the shining stars, because we are hearing a lot of pink slips going out out there, specifically to teachers. i'm still going to hold my breath in that area. i know on the medical care side we're hearing a lot of layoffs in administration in hospitals right now because of the pinch they're feeling. that said, you know, i'll take anything we can get. this is good news. well, less bad news, and that's good news. stuff that would have been bad news in september is good news today. everything's relative. i'll take it. >> let's move down the list and