cecilia conrad, diane swonk, we'll look for a little bit of light. thank you both very much. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> lehrer: still to come on the newshour: the last shuttle launch; a widening british newspaper scandal; the oil spill on the yellowstone river; and the analysis of brooks and marcus. but first, the other news of the day. here's hari sreenivasan. >> sreenivasan: the dismal unemployment report pushed wall street lower today. the dow jones industrial average lost 62 points to close at 12,657. the nasdaq fell more than 12 points to close at 2,859. for the week, the dow gained half a percent; the nasdaq rose more than 1.5%. security forces in syria killed at least 13 people today amid mass demonstrations against president bashar assad. the largest crowds were in the city of hama, where activists said hundreds of thousands of people gathered. troops have massed there in recent days. the u.s. and french ambassadors visited hama yesterday in a show of support for the protesters. the u.n. refugee agency warned today of a looming catastroph

chief analyst for mesirow diane swonk and host of "strategy session" on cnbc, david faber. governor kasich, your 20th appearance on "meet the press." >> that right? >> you were house budget chairman, so you know what's going on. can you explain it to the rest of us? what is going on and how is this going to end? >> you know, you always -- i was budget chairman, one of the chief architects of the last time we balanced the budget in 1997. it always gets down to the end, but david, it's a matter of will. if both sides have a will to get this done, they'll get it done. >> do you see the will now? is it different than how it's been? >> look, it's always difficult to put a big deal together. is the will there? i think right now they're still talking past one another. but i have to tell you, in my state, where we faced an $8 billion deficit, we wiped it out, we eliminated it. here's the interesting thing -- we have just been taken off of negative watch in the middle of this, and we also have jumped, according to cnbc, 11 places in terms of business-friendly. we've been able to cut

. >> diane swonk joins us. ben bernanke called it calamitous not to raise the debt ceiling. moody's said it would downgrade the u.s. aaa credit rating. let's talk about consequences from an economist perspective. if the u.s. fails to raise its debt ceiling on august 2nd, what does it mean for our already struggling economic recovery? >> well, it's incredibly bad news. it could be enough to push us into another recession, depending on how far. immediately they'd have to do 40% to 45% cuts in spending right off the top of the board. how long that would last? i would first stop paying congress for not doing their job. but i think the real issue is this is broad-based. you can't escape these. i know the american pick doesn't like the fearmongering going on around this issue. the thought that we would all have to pay higher interest rates, that we would allow the freedom of choice in this country to choose our future and leave to it the rest of the world to determine our future with higher interest rates and changes in spending cuts that are forced upon us and thrust upon us is j