would do this and the court and hague would indict president bush and dick cheny and secretary rumsfeldd specifically cia agents includingcsÑ burnsten on the list. >> i believe it is likely the icc at the hague would use elements of the senate to do indictment upons against the individuals and anyone who was identified is likely to be indicted. if that happens, we should never let another taxpayer dime go to the u.n. or icc and it would be a slap in the face of americans who tried to prevent terrorism. we are not signatories to the icc and any american, if you travel to a place that is a signatory, you could be taken into custody and taken over to the hague. >> unbelievable. talk about the the enhanced terrorism techniques. some say they don't work. you are involved in carrying out operations and you served overseas in afghanistan, do these techniques work or not? >> during the course of my career i worked with a lot of foreign services, for intelligence that use corosive methods successfully and i have seen countries that we work againstous them against us. all of that is a fantasy. th

the point being the national security adviser, like the chief of staff, which was ultimately dick cheny, was viewed as a role to collect the views of cabinet heads and agency heads and be an honest broker to ensure that the president got the right kind of advice. and they're not i don't think playing that role right now. the major caveat is in the end, any organization, whether it's the national security council or the depth of defense or department of state, reflects the leader at the head and the problem goes back to our president, his world view. more so than any kind of prophecy he has put in place. >> i saw recently that bob gates told the story in a speech or to a reporter, about going to afghanistan, his first -- jew toll it. it's in the back? >> maybe not. a direct line -- to the white house, and he ordered them to tear down immediately. >> the reason -- an accountability issue when you have confirmed officials that are actual department with a line of the chain of command you have accountability you can't have when a bunch of white house aides who don't testify, aren't confirm,