and also joined by former wells fargo ceo dick kovacevich.toli is here, along with cnbc contributor carol roth. and for more, guy adami and steve leisman stays with us. steve, the rate hike cycle has left the building. what is the jeff gundlach is saying. that is what you yourself told us a short while ago. >> yeah big changes here. worth note dprg all investors out there. first of all they didn't hike. they left rates unchanged. siting uncertainty out there in the economic outlook. down grate grade the labor market. also saying brexit played a factor. but the big story coming in the longer term outlook for rates. you can see interest this chart that they downgraded the outlook for 2017, 2018 and the longer run. first of all an 16 they didn't downgrade but six fed members now see just one hike this year. that is up from just one before. and look how fed rates were slashed in 2018. and i asked why this happened? what happened in just the past three months from the last time the fed put out its projections and she talked about the idea that the

much more from our guest host dick kovacevich. box" is coming right back. ♪ ♪ ♪ (singing) you wouldn't haul a load without checking your clearance. so why would you invest without checking brokercheck? check your broker with brokercheck. >>> she once topped forbes list of america's richest self made women with $4.5 billion. now her net worth forbes says has fallen to zero. lowering the net worth down to zero based on the fact that the current worth of the company. their response. as the privately held company we declined to share confidentiality information with forbes. as a result of this is based on speculation and press reports. dick, this is something we've talked about in the past. but obviously the tensions have ratcheted up. there is a criminal investigation, the sec is looking into issues and there is just questions about the basic lab efficiency and effectiveness at theranos. what do you say as the board member given the circling attacks that are coming? >> well i still believe in the vision of elizabeth and theranos and

bringing in dick kovacevich. former ceo of wells fargo.he preparations you would be making ahead of this vote, if you could tell us. >> well, the most important preparations would be, if the -- if you have the leave vote, you're going to have disruptive markets. currency markets, bond markets, equity markets. and you need to have the liquidity to allow the trading of those markets, and you need to be sure that you serve your customers because there is going to be -- the markets today, given what's going on, are asymmetric. if it's a leave vote, it's going to be ugly for a few days. you need to be prepared for that. now, having said that, you're going to get a lot of help from the central banks. everyone knows that the markets will be disruptive and they're prepared to provide the liquidity necessary to calm the markets. it's not going to come as a surprise in the sense that, you know, a bomb or something might occur which you didn't expect. i would assume that the banks are ready and, yet, it will still be messy because the -- because the

former wells fargo's dick kovacevich. listen to what's happening. >> it's increasing.f course, they don't add anything to revenue, and so they have to cut costs or profits are going to go down. what should happen is the industry will need to consolidate, and the only reason it isn't consolidating is the regulators don't want that to happen. if it was a normal situation, you'd find the banks being acquired. they need to advertise that over a bigger customer base. >> let's talk about thachlt joining me to debate whether the regulations are the problem. the man who wrote the regulations we're talking about, barney frank. he was chairman overseeing the banks and with him is frank keating who helped numerous positions. he's former governor of oklahoma. he's also the former ceo of the american banker's association. good to see you both. thanks for joining us. >> thank you. >> barney, do you believe the regulations in dodd/frank are a cap or limiter on the bank's ability to make money right now. >> they're not cap. obviously they're an expense. let's begin with the most enorm

joining us now is former wells fargo ceo dick kovacevich.veryone wondering what to do to lead the companies and why are you so concerned about a global recessi recession? >> i think this is about political risk and not economic risk. and if the politicians act rationally and not emotionally and kind of calm down and behave that way, we will not go into a serious recession. if the rhetoric, however, is one of anger and punishment and retribution, i think people will be so concerned that they -- that the actual results will be negative that they'll run for the hills and could cause the market to go -- to collapse, if you will, or go down further than they are today. what has to happen is the politicians have to say that they're going to work together for an orderly exit of the uk. probably meenls simply that they'll have different trade relationships, not zero trade relationships. i think that the united states has to speak out. i think unlike what president obama said that the uk should go to the end of the queue, if they leave, i think the o