his name was dick lugar, right? and i must've saved the letter for 20 years, right?o i think that those folks who serve honorably can be -- can be a great source of inspiration and that's one name. >> who else in the world of philosophy or leader -- national leadership or world leaders have gotten your attention? >> yes. well, i'm a -- i have an interesting policy, right? so i consume a lot of policy from -- probably from the center -- probably from the center think tank, center right think tanks and i've been -- i've been the benefit when i was mayor of indianapolis. i found my way to the manhattan institute. >> here in town? >> here not located far from where we're talking today. and what i thought was interesting about them and their group of writers was they cared a lot about cities, but they thought about them in non- traditional ways, how should the zoning work, how should the regulations work, how should the taxing limitations work, how should -- you know, what should civility mean, how do people get along together. and so, you know, i've -- whether you start

his name is dick lugar. i think those folks who served honorably can be a great source of inspiration. >> who else in the world of philosophy or national leadership or world leaders has gotten your attention? >> i have an interest in policy. i consume a lot of policy, probably from the center or center-right think tanks. i found my way to the manhattan institute's, located not far from where we are talking today. what was interesting about them is that they cared a lot about cities but they thought in nontraditional ways. how should taxing limitations work? how do people get along together? whether you start with james q. wilson or other folks who kind of think about slightly different ways from accepted political orthodoxy about the way things should work. >> have changed your mind at all on privatization of government functions? >> in indianapolis, we did the largest waste water and airport privatization. today, i would say it differently. i don't think privatization is the answer for cities, but i don't t

how about dick lugar? how about scott brown in massachusetts?an awkward vote for a lot of senate republicans. >> now, one of you brought up the other substantive thing that happened this week-- the shuffling of the national security team. leon panetta coming in to replace robert gates; general petraeus moving over to the cia. what do you think about the moves? >> in the first place, i think they excellent men, great public servants. i think it's a fine moves. a lot of issues surrounded it, panetta being somebody good that can control the defense budget and with petraeus going to cia it further mingled the intelligence and military community. >> we had that discussion last night. is it a serious issue. >> yeah, i don't think it is to be critiqued. i think is the reality. we're not fighting the soviet union, we're fighting terrorists, asymmetric warfare, and intelligence will be a lot more intermingled with war fighting. so i think it is an inevitable consequence of the struggle we are in. >> i'm a little traditionalist on it. the cia was founded