and dick luger lost the seat. but he didn't lose it to a democrat. he lost in a primary to this guy. >> i think even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that got intended to happen. >> that is richard mourdock, the tea party anti-establishment candidate. he had endorsements from americans for prosperity, the national right to life association, he is the republican who knocked dick luger out in the primary, and also lost the 2012 senate race in indiana. he is part of why despite the democrats defending the seat, increased their majority by two seats. over the past couple of things this kind of thing happened to republicans an awful lot. the establishment has been getting routed by the tea party. and many have not fought back, they don't want to be the next dick luger or mark castle or bennett. in the war for the republican party establishment, which is still a very conservative establishment at this point in time seems to be getting the upper hand. house budget chairman paul ryan is a great example of this. voting

decide would you rather win as a group or would you rather lose on principal like they did with dick luger in indiana? >> i think there are a lot of republicans who i talk to some from the tea maert movement who say we don't need another democratic party in this country. we are conservatives and need to stand by our conservative principals no matter what otherwise everybody is going to look the same. isn't the country better served, susan if there are two distinctive parties so voters have a cheer choice when they go to the voting booth. >> we would say why do the democratic party look like a republican party? it is a grat strategy with a long history of losing. >> marco rubio is a leading voice on the issue of immigration which coming out of the election only a xhounlts ago seemed like a no brainer but can someone like marco rubio does he have the talent and strength and respect on the right to bring the party together on this issue? is there anybody else you see? >> if marco rubio can't do it i don't know if anybody can do it. what is likely to happen marco rubio will pull enough republi

they're not going to listen to people like dick luger. they not going to vote for bob bennett. they're looking for someone way out in the sage where you shall. >> that's absolutely right. karl rove was "the brain" and was a smart guy in the party back when the far right was allowed in the house but they couldn't touch anything. they weren't allowed to actually run anything. but what happened since george w. bush, when they sort of corralled in the far right wing, convincing them that george w. bush was a true conservative which, of course, he turned out in their minds not to be. he turned out to be a big spender. he turned out to do medicare part d. he did all of these things. they were able to get the far right to go with them. now, since 2010, they've been allowed to govern. they've actually had real power. they're not going back into that mode. >> but, chris -- >> i don't think they like fighting aides in africa too much. >> but, chris, i also think the other thing that you said is very, very important, which is, in the old days, in the ronald reagan days, the enemy was over

if this group is picking and choosing our conservative candidates, would they have picked dick luger? you're setting this up with battles that are highly unnecessary and not going to be helpful. >> but, really, dana, isn't this more than just about the internal balls in the republican party? isn't it barack obama has put together a real way of mobilizing a new america, given the demographics of today and has gone forward and laid out an agenda and they don't know what to do with it? they're stumbling all over themselves because they don't know what to doo. >> well, it's a little bit of both of those things, reverend. there is sort of a circular firing squad right now. i think to one extent, michael steele is right. if he couldn't save the republican party, i don't think anybody can. i think karl rove has correctly diagnosed a problem in that is that in these primaries, they're running all of these far right candidates are winning and that's causing them to lose elections. they'd be in charge of the senate if they didn't have all of these far right candidates who ultimately wound up lo