you're probably saying, well, who the heck is john dickenson?e was actually called the penniman of the revolution. he was one of the most important men of the founding generation, bar none. and when he went to the philadelphia convention, he looked at this constitution that james madison had written, and he said, no, no, we're not having that. that's not going to work in these united states. or you have someone like roger sherman of connecticut, a man that thomas jefferson once said never said a -- i'm paraphrasing here -- never said a stupid thing in his life. this was also his constitution because, again, he was a conservative moderating influence. when he got to the philadelphia convention and he saw james madison's work he again said, nope, we're not having that in these united states. it's not going to work. the people of connecticut will never agree to this thing. or john rutledge of south carolina, another very important founding father. john rutledge, of course, would later serve on the supreme court. he basically helped win the american

. >> rose: people now make these kinds of parsons, dickenson, elliott, and that kind of thing. my point is not do you think of yourselves as any of those. but my point is what kind of acknowledgment and appreciation would satisfy you the most. >> oh pie god. -- my god. because you -- >> i think it's very dangerous for a writer to start thinking those terms. i really mean that this isn't false modesty. i'm enormously-- i'm enormously flattered that anyone would mention those names. i will say i consciously wanted this book to be a modern take on that kind of 19th century novel where you do go into a small society and you really analyze and an at my that tiny society so that is great that people would say, you know, they would recognize that i'm trying to write in that tradition. there is a difference between that. and me sitting there thinking now who would i like to be compared to. >> rose: that is why i asked the question that i did. i didn't want to you think that i was thinking-- do you -- >> i think it's probably-- . >> rose: dow rich woman think of yourself as dickens. >>

our guests include governor jennifer grandholm, tim dickenson, and johnny rodman of the sex pistols.ht she played sarah palin last time in joe biden's debate practice. >> and give her a big dating game kiss for us. >> oh, that will be mentioned. >> oh, cool. >> stephanie: and tickets going fast for new york. and i have another celebrity guest panelist. >> are we going to leek? >> can you give a hint? >> stephanie: no. >> there is two and they are both really cool -- >> it might help sell tickets. >> maybe it's clint eastwood in an empty chair. [ laughter ] >> stephanie: that's it. the debate was in kentucky last night? >> that's right. >> stephanie: what is our other favorite thing that happened in kentucky? congress john yarmuth. good morning. >> good morning. i got to talk to joe about the debate. yo is joe, and he was very pleased with the way it went. >> stephanie: i bet. >> yeah and he was -- he finally pointed out so many of the flaws and emptiness of the romney/ryan ideas, and the things they say just don't add up. and they clearly demonstrated a superiority to paul ryan. he d