. >> i want to go back to professor dilorenzo. by the way, how is he viewed by the lincoln -- he calls it a cult? >> he's viewed probably in the same way that lerone bennett is viewed. they're both viewed -- their opinions are -- their interpretations are viewed more as extremist interpretations, i think. i understand why their interpretations are what they are. i think they are a reaction to what they see -- and i don't want to try to put words in their mouths. but i think it's a reaction as to what they see as sort of an over-the-top attitude about lincoln, that he is perfect, that he -- you even have people saying, well, he entered the war knowing he would get rid of slavery and the war was all about that. i don't see that when i do research. and what i've attempted to do in the last several years is to try to bring a little bit more balance to an understanding of lincoln. he doesn't have to be perfect. none of us are, but that doesn't mean that he's not important. >> here is professor dilorenzo talking about a career as a hist

. >> thomas dilorenzo has been writing books not all that favorable of abraham lincoln. he's an economist by trade. listen to his take on the emancipation proclamation. >> the 13th amendment freed the slaves to be sure, and lincoln late in his term did support the 13th amendment. you know, so when the states ratify the 13th amendment, that's what freed the slaves. during the war a lot of slaves free themselves as two huge armies went through and created anarchy and chaos. a lot of them freed themselves, and, of course, the emancipation proclamation, who anyone can read online or offline, specifically exempted all the areas of the united states that were under the control of the union at the time. it was even so specific as to mention each parish in louisiana where the union army was in charge at the time of the emancipation proclamation, and so it didn't apply to what was called rebel territory. and so it literally didn't have the ability to free anybody, and besides that, the president at the time didn't have the ability to end slavery. that would have had to have been