as i mentioned, dirkson and linden johnson. president johnson understood what the civil rights bill that he needed dirkson's visible support not just the pass the bill but to gain public support for a controversial piece of legislation. so you see with the health care bill, we pass it and ram it through as a partisan bill and there's a movement to repeal it from day one. civil rights is very controversial too. but johnson was smart enough to get republican involvement in it. >> you mentioned the education secretary. i want to ask you about something that came up at the health care debate on the federal student loan program. you were very critical when congress voted to take over basically kick the private banks out of the federal student loan program calling it a government takeover. i think some of your republican colleagues call it that too. i want to help people understand how can there be a federal program, federal loan program? because wasn't it already a federal program at that point? >> no. it's just federally backed loa