dodson, let's start with you for a second. at what point did you come to the -- you had to come forward, had to say something. usually these things build up or something big happens. explain to me what happened where you thought enough was enough? >> you mean outside of atf, sir? >> in this particular case. why did you get to this point where you're sharing this information? >> well, i questioned my supervisors almost immediately, once we realized, once we relocated the phoenix and got briefed and started operationally that we were allowing this to go. then as a case agent, my supervisor and chain of command told me i was wrong and they were right and this was a righteous operation. it wasn't until on december 15th, 2010 when i read, we have a significant incident report, detailing the preliminary investigation into the trace and weapons purchased, and after reading that and speaking with my fbi counterparts and learning that they were unaware of the events regarding the purchase and trace of the firearms, i had to go outside

special agent dodson, again, i'm trying to understand this.lowing a suspected straw purchase and you started the gun store and follow it to a house, why wouldn't you keep following that gun? >> sir, that's the one question that i can't answer for you is the why. it made no sense to us either. it's what we were ordered to do and every time we questioned that order, you know, there was punitive action against those of us who did so. as to why we would let them go or tuck them in bed at home and us leave for the night i can tell you the why, sir. that's why hopefully this committee can find out. >> we're going to find out. i under that there might be a new suspected -- i understand there might be new suspected straw purchases happening back at the gun store but if you keep leaving the guns you're following, start tracking new ones that doesn't seem to work. that's what you all are saying. did you raise your concerns, those concerns with your supervisor? >> yes, sir. many times. >> have either of you ever received an explanation as to why this ope

dodson, let's start with you for asecond. at what point did you come to the -- you had to come forward, had to say something. usually these things build up or something big happens. explain to me what happened whe you thought enough was enough? >> you mean outside of atf, sir? >> in this particular case. why did you get to this point where you're sharing this information? >> well, i questioned my supervisors almost immediately, oncewe realized, once we relocated the phoenix and got briefed and started operationally that we were allowing this to go. then as a case agent, my supervisor and chain of command to me i was wrong and they were right and this was a righteous operation. it wasn't until on december 15th, 2010 when i read, we have a significant incident report, deiling the preliminary investigation into the trace and weapons purchased, and after reading that and speaking with my fbi countearts and learning that they were unaware of the events regarding the purchase and trace of the firearms, i had to go outside the atf,

along the way a friend of mine from, thomas dodson where i've been a crime reporter for several years invited me to go to his town's annual fiesta and as it turned out everybody in that town was either living in stockton or chicago or indianapolis or dallas i believe, one of those cities or l.a.. so that first week i wandered around and it was there that i just understood, began to understand i should say, it began a tenure track through the immigrant villages of mexico. first of all focusing on the houses. immigration to the united states because of the nature of mexican immigration to proximity and dollar has created a massive massive urban renewal essentially and lots and lots of villages where people build houses for years, decades because there are no mortgages for people or folks, mortgages that they could afford so they would get into these -- build their houses all but the idea at some .40, 30 or 40 years down the road at some point they are going to retire and go back home and retire to that house. that is the central part of their lives here really i think oftentimes in and

that's all i have to say. >> special agent dodson? >> yes, ma'am. prior to my involvement with phoenix, in all my atf experience and my experience in local law enforcement, ma'am, i can tell you tat we've never let a gun walk. i've never seen it authorized or allowed to let a gun walk. and if one even got away from us, like i stated earlier, nobody went home until we found it. >> thank you all very much. again, thank you for your service, for being here today, and to brian's family again, our deepest sympathy. i yield back. >> i thankhe gentle lady and the witnesses for their testimony. it is not a normal practice to have government witnesses along with family or what sometimes are called civilians, but in this case i thought it was appropriate you all be there together. i appreciate all that you have done for us today to have us better understand the situation, and mrs. terry, although i can never guarantee the outcome, about two years ago we were able to name borderpatrol station after three fallen border patrol agents several decades after they w

dodson, let's start with you for a second. at what point did you come to the -- you had to come forward, had to say something. usually these things build up or something big happens. explain to me what happened where you thought enough was enough? >> you mean outside of atf, sir? >> in this particular case. why did you get to this point where you're sharing this information? >> well, i questioned my supervisors almost immediately, once we realized, once we relocated the phoenix and got briefed and started operionally that we were allowing this to go. then as a case agent, my supervisor and chain o command told me i was wrong and they were right and this was a righteous operation. it wasn't until on december 15th, 2010 when i read, we have a significant incident report, detailing the preliminary investigation in the trace and weapons purchased, and after reading that and speaking with my fbi counterparts and learning that they were unaware of the events regarding the purchase and trace of the firearms, i had to go outside the a

that's all i have to say. >> special agent dodson? >> yes, ma'am. prior to my involvement with phoenix, in all my atf experience and my experience in local law enforcement, ma'am, i can tell you that we've never let a gun walk. i've never seen it authorized or allowed to let a gun walk. and if one even got away from us, like i stated earlier, nobody went home until we found it. >> thank you all very much. again, thank you for your service, for being here today, and to brian's family again, our deepest sympathy. i yield back. >> i thank the gentle lady and the witnesses for their testimony. it is not a normal practice to have government witnesses along with family or what sometimes are called civilians, but in this case i thought it was appropriate you all be there together. i appreciate all that you have done for us today to have us better understand the situation, and mrs. terry, although i can never guarantee the outcome, about two years ago we were able to name a border patrol station after three fallen border patrol agents several decades after