. >> we want to bring in dolores canales into the conversation.she is the mother of john martinez and a member of the california families to abolish solitary confinement. can you speak about the experience of your son john martinez and his participation in this case in the letter he has recently written? >> yes, good morning, thank you for having me. my son has been held in solitary confinement going on almost 13 years. he spent 10 years in corcoran state prison and then transferred about two and half years ago to pelican bay. my son is a self-proclaimed joe house lawyer. he has studied. what i have found through this organization that we have found it is numerous prisoners that are housed in the solitary confinement unit are actually , areouse lawyers knowledgeable in the law, that utilize the appellate process that terry thornton herself was talking about that they have within the prison system. this appellate process that she was also speaking of, you're not even legally entitled to enter into the court until you you have exhausted the system w