the $4 trillion objective that bowles simpson, dominici rivlin and the gang of 6 was trying to get to, it is because that figure that fiscal experts tell us the debt level is sustainable. it's about 70 -- a little less than 70% of your debt to gdp, gross domestic product. that everything we make in america. we are now $15 trillion of debt, with a t. none of us can conceive what a trillion dollars is, i think. but it's a lot of money and it would take an extraordinary amount of money out of your pocket, and your children and their children and their children's children will take to amortize that debt if we do not set ourselves on a fiscally responsible path. those of you who read the papers know that part of our fiscal problems is caused by the fiscal instability in europe. greece is the particular example to which we look. greece has a debt level of about 128% debt load to its gdp. now, the good news for america is -- and the bad news for agrees -- the bad news for greece, they do not have the resources themselves to solve the problem they have created. they're going to need help from