joining me from new york, college football hall of fame terror is don mcpherson. n, thank you so much for joining us. we appreciate you taking the time. don also played in the nfl and is a student of sports in society. i want to read a quote now, don, from maureen dowd, she was writing this in the "new york times." she says, "like the roman catholic church, penn state is an arrogant institution hiding behind its mystique." so don, when you see these students and penn state reporters rallying behind joe paterno, do you see something that is wrong there? >> i don't think something that is wrong there other than the fact these students are look agent their lives a snapshot like today. unlike the roman catholic church, joe paterno has his faith because of the fans, the people around him, because he is an icon and something that we all look to for diversion. we all can go as fans and go enjoy the game of football and joe paterno holds a very special place at a program that also is very special in the way that's maintained, its sense of integrity and reputation over the

don mcpherson has known bernie fine for more than 20 years. at syracuse. i spoke to him shortly before the show. he talked about his relationship with bernie fine. >> i know him well. he was a coach when i was at syracuse since 1983, my freshman year there, and i've known him as part of an honorary fraternity on campus as well, and he's always been a great man, as far as i know. >> so you never -- >> no. >> -- heard, saw, nothing? >> no. and i think that's the thing that surprised a lot of people about this, with bernie fine. he's always been an upstanding man. >> and i know, obviously, some people had said it was a similar situation with jerry sandusky, except, for, obviously, there were certain incidents that various individuals observed. but you've never heard about anything like that in this case? >> no, not at all. >> let me ask you what you think is really happening here. and put this in context. you're someone who's an advocate in these sorts of situations. you've testified in front of congress. this is a cause you've taken on, to preve