. >> rose: don meredith said to me, when i first started in television, said know where your mark is, know what you're doing, be able to communicate that and show them that you're having fun. that's all that's necessary. it does have a certain truth to it about politics, doesn't it? donald trump has to convince people that he's presidential. you know, they have to think of him as a man in the oval office, yes? >> yes, indeed, and i think that hillary clinton seemed more than she often does to be having fun in the first debate. not all the time, but some. and trump often has fun with his audiences, but it's not the same thing in these debates, because there is not the same arena crowd to play to and say build a wall. so, you're right, i will agree with you and don meredith those three eternal principles and we'll see if trump puts them to use. >> rose: you have a sense that hillary clinton, the opposite of that, is a listener. >> yes, and that, of course, brings the impence topic, which out in my article, of just the constraint she's under as the first woman in this position, the first