so don norman got very involved. and he of course had absolutely top, top, top security close. is also extremely sociable. he used to from time to time go over to the naval ordnance lab at nasa and by the end of the war, mauchly, and a bunch of other people have built in the act. they would talk to atanasoff about computer ideas. but when atanasoff was invited to look at eniac, this table is round, but the abc was about as big as this table. eniac was about as big as this room. and so atanasoff look at it and said okay, he must be right. they did build the computer completely on a different principle than my computer. and he was an enterprising guy, he went into business, made millions of dollars doing other things. and then starting in the early '50s, sort of wonder gone through into the '60s and '70s, the various companies that were involved in eniac and also in other computer ideas. >> host: what were those companies? granted it was ibm, sperry rand. there was, i don't even remember anymore. consolidated engineering. a bunch of them. who had come into the computer business f