we went through all of the 17 people from michael balloon to don rumsfeld and we found these principles flowed through all of them. even iran brook. these core principles resinate. and i think we get too caught up in trying to fight each other over policy differences. >> you said the american revolution was more of an evolution than a revolution. i think kirk said something similar. are your thoughts on the declaration and is that something the people should be united on? >> that is a good question. my wife is an attorney a believes in black letter law. that is a question beyond my ability. but i will tell you we live in two nations almost. pew research, a great organization, did a piece of work recently and asked people what they felt about abortion in almost all cases. 75% of people in the northeast said abortion should be in almost every case. 60% of people in the south disagreed with that. gay marriage: 62% of northerners. 61% of southerners not for it. and it is just fascinating to see how we are really two nations. if you really pay attention to the declaration of independence you

don rumsfeld, dick cheney, no surprise. and tyler and leave the consistently explained no, that this shouldn't be done. it was a mistake. not that the law shouldn't give authority in exceptional circumstances to the justice system to take such steps, but that the attorney general, weighing the situation, has to take into account our entire political culture. you have to recognize the best part of the american tradition respects journalists and journalist writes you investigate and bring out facts that are painful to the government, even those respecting national security matters. an importantere is element of political accountability, shared by the president and the attorney general. with thism legislation is a tendency to sort of mainstream the process, make it something pretty routine that goes through and then goes to a judge, and the judges making the decision. we can say that judicial check is the hallmark of democracy, alsohe political -- tyler raise with me a very serious concern he had about the way the justice depa

you're the first secretary to go there since don rumsfeld. left and they gave him the gift of a worse. my question is, are you prepared for a similar gift, it is there room on the plane? [laughter] >> i do not know if they would consider giving me a horse, but i would be privileged if they would give me any recognition of our partnership. probably there is no place for livestock that i have seen on that plane. >> take a look at this, this is no joke, or is it? speaking of leadership, guess which big banks have ceos that are underpaid? ♪ >> you are watching "lunch money ." we are also streaming live on bloomberg.com and your tablet and smartphone. bank of america ceo brian monahan made $13 million last year. what if i told you he is underpaid? that is the conclusion in the new study by bud crystal. we discussed that finding with betty liu. >> what he did was crunched numbers in 2013 scales, will return, and their tenure as eeo -- ceo. and created a going rate for each ceo. bryan moynahan's was about 30% lower than what he thought it should be.

michael barone -- don rumsfeld. and we found that these were -- these principles flow through of them, even the head of the iranian society or foundation, i think it is called. these core principles resonate. we get too caught up in trying to fight each other over policy differences. >> another question. >> you said that the american revolution was more of an evolution than a revolution. i was wondering, what are your thoughts on the relevance of that declaration and how we interpret the constitution, and is that something conservatives should be united on? >> that is a really good question. my wife is an attorney, and she believes in black letter law. other people believe in and using the declaration. i think that that is a question beyond my ability, but i will tell you that we live in two nations. i saw there is an organization that did a piece of work recently. they asked people what they felt about abortion. you may have seen there research 75 percent of people of the northeast said that abortion should be avai

don rumsfeld, dick cheney, no surprise. and tyler and leave the consistently explained no, that this shouldn't be done. it was a mistake. not that the law shouldn't give authority in exceptional circumstances to the justice system to take such steps, but that the attorney general, weighing the situation, has to take into account our entire political culture. you have to recognize the best part of the american tradition respects journalists and journalist writes you investigate and bring out facts that are painful to the government, even those respecting national security matters. so i think there is an important element of political accountability, shared by the president and the attorney general. one problem with this legislation is a tendency to sort of mainstream the process, make it something pretty routine that goes through and then goes to a judge, and the judges making the decision. we can say that judicial check is the hallmark of democracy, but the political -- tyler also raise with me a very serious concern he had

but the other piece of it is, i think back to president obama and don rumsfeld.midterms in '06. here maybe the president is giving democrats room to say you know what? not only have they exceeded some expectations on the rollout, but he did take action to have accountability about it. >> it's funny when you watch what happened and kathleen put herself out there. she was literally on live television trying to make it work. and glitches that happened literally in realtime. and she handled it with grace and elegance. you know, the president obviously believed in her, because a lot of people were calling for her resignation or saying why aren't they doing anything. but yet she leaves with their goal surpassed. >> absolutely. i moo enwimean, it's an ironic story. but sylvia coming in is somebody who's respected by the president. she's got good management experience. what you need right now is management and implementation skills. if there's one thing we learned from the health care fiasco is the government needs more geeks on board. needs to get more people on board w

a story about donald rumsfeld someday being president, had the gop ticket back in 1980 gone a different way. let's play that. >> my phone rang. it was governor reagan. he said, donto know that i decided to have george bush be my vice presidential nominee. >> it seems to me that if that decision had gone a slightly different way, you would have been vice president and future president of the united states. >> that's possible. >> did he go any further into this issue with you? did you get a sense at all that it something he's thought about often? >> we're talking about an extraordinarily ambitious man. a number of people have said to me that this is the true house of cards. if you really want an insight into how washington works and how things are done, watch "the unknown known." >> when he was doing his press conferences back in the day as secretary of defense, he was very popular with the american people. he was brash, he'd be short, he called out reporters. did he talk at all about that persona that he developed? he knows the interpretation has changed since, does he not? >> he didn't talk about that persona. he manifest it temperature he was loquacious, charmi