they added a new charge against donald trump. one additional account of willful intention of hiding national information. this is alongside donald trump, and his longside valet. this is the head of maintenance at donald trump florida resort. he moved boxes of documents from the infamous storage room at a key moment, one day before prosecutors came to retrieve those remaining classified documents. he's facing four charges. he's obstructing justice, concealing an object, concealing a document, and falsifying statements. according to the superseding indictment, one week after the emailed an attorney from donald trump's business organization, a grand jury subpoena required the production of certain security camera footage is from mar-a-lago. they had this conversation with another donald trump employee. quote, he told donald trump's employee, that the boss wanted the server deleted. he responded that he would not know how to do that. he did not believe that he would have the right to do that. donald trump's employee 4, told them that

of donald trump. supreme court of georgia to prevent the use of any evidence developed by a special grand jury supervised by fani willis in georgia. the supreme court of the state of georgia, with eight of the nine justices having been appointed by republican governors, issued an opinion that marks donald trump simply by reciting exactly what donald trump was asking the supreme court to do. the georgia supreme court said that donald trump was asking that court, quote, to allow him to circumvent the regular judicial process. the georgia supreme court ruled that donald trump was wrong procedurally and then went the extra step to say that donald trump was also wrong on merits. trump was asking the supreme court of georgia to find georgia's special purpose grand juries unconstitutional and dismissing that plane. the georgia supreme court said, according to him, the entire special purpose grand jury scheme in georgia is so vague that it violates his constitutional rights. to every point made by donald trum

you mentioned donald trump. i think a lot of this is a way of sidestepping some of the key defenses and arguments that trump is raising. if he keeps talking about the presidential records act, there's declassification nonsense. all of that is pushed to the side when you're talking about deleting evidence, destroying evidence, lying to the fbi. hiding evidence from the government sidesteps that. very hard for them in the jury room to justify that to their fellow jurors. one thing you focused on a moment ago was this false statement charge to the fbi. it's important to understand the context of that. this is after the fbi raided mar-a-lago. this is after there's a criminal investigation. and i will just say, in my experience, the jurors have a lot of trouble excusing people for lying and trying to cover up activity after they know that there's a criminal investigation. it's just very hard to claim you weren't focused on it or you weren't mistaken because you know the stakes at that point. i really think that's goi

this always happens in a very unusual way with donald trump. he posts something that says something is going to happen. shortly thereafter, something happens. he gets the letter. that is still not an indictment. and that is not a trial. it's not done. this is early steps. what do you expect to happen next? >> i expect his lawyers are going to seek a meeting with the special counsel's office and or senior officials at the department of justice. if they have not already. there's been no public reporting of that reporting. the last time around, we went through a federal indictment trump target letter and his lawyer sat down with jack smith and team, it wasn't until about two weeks later, plus, that we saw the indictment and the record's case. >> joyce, how big a deal is the target letter? because you get it once they are well into the investigation against you and you are invited as lisa said, there will probably be a meeting, at which what happens? are you supposed to say you guys got this all, wrong you are not supposed to go after me, you got t

, from donald trump. at 9:21 am this morning don trump posted on social media something that has since been confirmed by nbc news from other sources, quote, jack smith, the prosecutor with joe biden's department of justice sent a letter, again, it was a sunday night, exclamation point. stating that i am a target of the january six grand jury and giving me a very short for days to report to the grand jury, which almost always means interest and impeachment. that was the only thing donald trump had to say today to the federal judge who he appointed, who, four and a half hours later, was discussing a possible trial date in a hearing in the case in which jack smith is already prosecuting donald trump. that social media post this morning was very much targeted pet judge aileen mercedes cannon, who had a hearing today to consider scheduling for that federal prosecution, in which donald trump, in which he already faces charges. and donald trump wanted that judge to know that anything she wants to schedule is goi

donald trump at all.not vote for donald trump at all. there those were open to votin: trump at all. there those were open to voting for — trump at all. there those were open to voting for someone _ trump at all. there those were open to voting for someone else - trump at all. there those were open to voting for someone else in - trump at all. there those were open to voting for someone else in there l to voting for someone else in there 'ust to voting for someone else in there just waiting — to voting for someone else in there just waiting for something better to come _ just waiting for something better to come along at this point, ron desantis _ come along at this point, ron desantis has not proven that he is a better— desantis has not proven that he is a better alternative in his attempt to try to _ better alternative in his attempt to try to turn — better alternative in his attempt to try to turn things around and show that he _ try to turn things around and show that he can — try to turn things around

they see donald trump as genuine, and i mean, i mean, you talk about donald trump being in a box by himself. how many could well be in a cell on his own? if things don't go his way, he's made it clear he will run for the presidency as to why the republican movement willing to see that party fault by somebody with a conviction like that. well, let me, let me put on. if i may, for a 2nd my lawyer had and i'll make up for addiction in here, they will not be in all likelihood, any trial concluded before the election. the only way that will happen would be of donald trump were to, for some reason, leave the presidential race. uh would. they no longer be in the position he's in as soon as the front runner, an error parent, or a parent meeting to to the nomination. that, that he is currently so come in may, which is one of the 1st ones that i cited may 22nd of the, the documents case. let's just use as an example of donald trump has amassed by that time would you rate well, could all the delegates necessary to win the nomination these the defacto nominate? there will be no trial, and i think your

the greatest crime donald trump ever committed was to undermine democracy. the will of the people by trying to overthrow a free and fair election. today, we saw the first signs that justice may be coming for him. today, we learned that the ex president received a letter from the special counsel jack smith, indicating that he is the target of a criminal investigation into efforts to interfere with the presidential election of 2020 leading to the insurrection on january 6th 2021. according to trump, the special counsel gave him a four-day deadline in which to speak to the washington d. c. grand jury hearing the case. it's an offer he will almost certainly not accept, seeing that anything he says can be used against him in a subsequent trial. all of this indicates the department of justice is wrapping up what has been a long and sprawling investigation led by this man, jack smith, for the past eight months. we do not have any indication of what the exact charges are that smith is considering. and the ex president said himself, a target letter like this, quote,

and it was worse for donald trump when he was arraigned in florida. a state that donald trump won. the protest turnout was just as low as in manhattan and much quieter, much more subdued. the so-called protesters were there because tv cameras were there and the protesters were desperately just hoping to get a chance to wave to their friends on tv at home. there have been no real protests of donald trump's arrests. none. no marching in the street anywhere. no noise and at all in all 50 states. donald trump surely realizes by now that if and when he gets arrested and arraigned in washington, d. c., he will set a record low for so-called protest turnout at one of his arrests. virtually everyone willing to go to washington, d. c. to protest violently for donald trump is either in prison tonight or awaiting trial. donald trump should know tonight that he can only embarrass himself again by publicly announcing that he has been indicted before he is arrested and arraigned. donald trump knows he is not going to get any kind of protester turnout at all for his next arrest in washington, d.

how does that tie back to donald trump himself?donald trump is now the target according to thisletter that trump says he received -- again, this is according to donald trump himself -- is that -- did you believe the fake electors' scheme is a piece of this? >> it seems it ought to be. we understand from public reporting the government has been looking at the fake elector scheme. by the way, ana, just because mr. trump is a target of the investigation doesn't mean he is the only target of the investigation. look back at what happened at mar-a-lago because mr. trump's personal aide, walt na nauta, w also charged with federal crimes. it makes sense to me that the government would at least be investigating, looking seriously at the conduct involving fake electors. if you are charging somebody with the attempt to defraud the united states government or try to overturn a free and fair election, the fake electors would have to be part of the investigation. whether or not they're ultimately part of the chargcha we'll have to wait and see.

at donald trump events.ieve there's a difference between running against donald trump and not supporting him. right now, ron desantis, the folks have booed. ron desantis and other republicans are now trying to -- a little bit of separation from him. this is a tough reality they have lived in. kevin mccarthy and other republicans on capitol hill, not defiantly speaking out about donald trump, has led to this moment. so few thought that donald trump would run for office, let alone remain in good standing with the events that transpired after the 2020 election. >> michael was talking about the reaction from florida. are they telling you one thing publicly and something else privately? are they living in such fear of trump, they don't want to talk about this? >> since the beginning of the campaign and before the campaign started, it was clear that ron desantis would have to walk a fine line. over the last several days, there's numerous reports about a campaign shakeup. how the campaign has been burning through c

textbook donald trump.is going to lower level people asking to do his dirty work, people who aren't going to have the constitution to stand up to a former maybe future president and he knows what he is doing when he does that. >> and as we watch this play out, what's interesting, too, with all of these new details that we're hearing, is how it is this playbook, right, that michael talked about, that you are saying in terms of what you saw. elie, does that figure in at all in this case into a pattern here? >> well, it's interesting. when we consider the notion of loyalty, because when we are looking at what is walt nauta going to do, what is carlos de oliveira, the new defendant, going to do, the decision whether to cooperate with the government, which i have been on other side of many times, is really complicated and comes down to sometimes a financial decision, a philosophical decision, a moral decision, and i think what donald trump may have recognized now, which michael is a good example of, it's hard to

why is donald trump so hard to beat? a month from the first debate, a new poll of republican voters reveals the former president has an iron—like grip over the base, despite — or perhaps because of — his criminal indictments. we will discuss that tonight with our panel, democrat strategist mary anne marsh and from scotland, the political analyst and columnist for the herald, brian taylor. why x could be the most powerful letter in the english language. it's certainly the biggest flashing symbol in downtown san francisco, much to the annoyance closest neighbours and for the first much to the annoyance of twitter�*s closest neighbours. and for the first time in nine months, the americans have travelled to qatar to meet the taliban. two days after the group started burning musical instruments in herat. what basis is there for a mutual understanding? welcome back. we are still some six months from the first republican primaries and the candidates have not yet appeared on a debate stage, but in every poll, donald trump is the

, begging donald trump to stop the riot, and then donald trump saying, "oh, kevin, it's antifa." his response, again, a shouting match. mccarthy went around telling all of the republican caucus, he was very proud of the fact he shouted down the president who, you know, sat there for two hours while they were being attacked, while rioters were looting the capitol and while police officers were getting brutalized. >> you know, there's a reason that donald trump refers to kevin mccarthy and has over the years as "my kevin." you saw "his kevin" on display yesterday. he'll say and do anything to protect donald trump. he had that one moment on january 6th, the phone calls you just laid out, that night lindsey graham was another of them who said, "enough is enough. he bears responsibility for this." you can't change that video. it does make you wonder, we've talked about this, joe, how someone like kevin mccarthy looks in the mirror at night. what does he tell his family? what does he tell his kids? he was there. he knows what happened on january 6th. we show the video because we have t

by donald trump. and those millions of voters in new york city and the many millions more in the surrounding areas of new jersey and connecticut within an hour of the courthouse in manhattan all stayed away. when donald trump was arrest and reigned their. despite don trump begging them to come. only a couple of dozen people showed up outside the courthouse that day. i was there that day walking among them and they were less than enthusiastic than any new york sports fans. and it was worse for donald trump when he was arraigned in florida. a state that donald trump won. the protest turnout was just as low as in manhattan and much quieter, much more subdued. the so-called protesters were there because tv cameras were there and the protesters were desperately just hoping to get a chance to wave to their friends on tv at home. there have been no real protests of donald trump's arrests. no marching in the street anywhere. no noise and at all in all 50 states. donald trump surely realizes by now that if and

donald trump is a liar. donald trump is a national security threat.ald trump willingly knew that he had this country's secrets and he was trying to tamper with evidence to hide that he had that information. all of those things are true and it doesn't matter who the head of doj and fbi is. and that's what we have to be honest about. and if we want to change how the doj operates or the fbi operates, then we have to win elections, and we're not going to win in november if we nominate donald trump. >> how will the administration restore confidence among voters left and right. how do you do it? does it change the way we appoint the attorney general? >> it starts with appointing people that have immediate respect, right? >> joe biden -- merrick garland was -- whatever you think of joe biden in his defense, that's the way he was thinking. he had democratic halls criticizing him. hey, you need more of a defender there. don't put a federal judge there. >> well, but did the population know who merrick garland was? no. all they knew about him he was the dude tha

anything is possible when it comes to donald trump. lawrence, for these federal prosecutions, and sure there's a possibility of trump trying to pardon himself or squash the prosecutors down the road. these are really significant. they go to some of the most critical criminal statutes that the united states government has. and donald trump looks like he's going to be alleged to have violated them. so, i think it's really important for the country that we have that trial. and it would be in my mind an impeachable offense that donald trump did win the presidency and tried to drop these prosecutions and the appeals process just to benefit his own power. >> neal katyal and bradley moss, thank you both very much for joining us tonight. and coming up -- what happens if you watch five days of russian television nonstop? you'll find the propaganda is not just in the so-called news shows. it's also in the entertainment shows and the reality shows. our next guest did exactly that and reported his findings in the atlantic, including the reassuring

you can't be donald trump light. you shouldn't be donald trump light. i think every candidate running for candidate as president saying the most presidential thing donald trump can do is walk gray the right. he doesn't care about being an american. he doesn't care about being a republican. he cares about his pride and evening quo and it's eating him up. >> how about these fake elector? they were willin masquerade and go along -- course this is what they're accused of. but there does seem to be some evidence against how this scheme was going to unfold. what are we to make of this? >> i continued feeling like i'm watching a scandal, the show on a loop. and the things -- the plots are just the kind of things that not even shonda rhimes could come up with, because it's such in insanity. but it was happening in so many different places. and what's sad is that none of it is going to matter. >> why? >> because it's baked into the cake. because they think that donald trump is being victimized. because, frankly, ron desantis is not making the sale. because it tu

g donald, try to cheat much? host: some news this morning >> are going to break away to hear marks from president biden on artificial knowledge of

appointed exactly what donald trump expects of her. quote, the intersection between the presidential records act and the various criminal statutes at issue has never been addressed by any court, and in the defendants view, will result in a dismissal of the indictment. the only person who can dismiss the indictment is the judge in the case who was appointed by the defendant in the case, and the defendant is now telling that judge in writing that she will do that. quote, will result in a dismissal of the indictment. if judge kenan had the slightest concern for judicial decency and the appearance of impartiality she would, of course, have already recused herself from this case, and not leave herself in a position tonight to be taking orders publicly, in writing, from the man who appointed her. there is nothing legally improper or unusual about that line in a normal defendants pleading. it is extremely unlikely that there is anything in the presidential records act that can legitimately get this case dismissed. criminal defense lawyers are

donald trump is a lying liar who lies. and as you barbara, know it's, for many years, there is a legal process at the justice department that is going to play out by non career political professionals who were going to present evidence to a jury of donald trump's peers, and they're going to make a decision based on that evidence. but i think what's important to recognizes that, beyond the legal process, there is a political process that everybody watching right now has the ability to engage in. donald trump was in pennsylvania today, lying again about the election. and he has the nerve and the audacity to come back to pennsylvania asking for votes after he and his acolytes tried to throw out the votes of pennsylvania voters, when he didn't like the way we voted. but i think as this conversation unfolds, it can't just be about accountability for donald trump. it has to also be for the republican elected officials, who supported his lies and continue to parrot them to this day. >> speaking of a -- elected official -- he was

never support donald trump. my wife my, friends, my supporters in the eyes and explain to them why i would ever think donald trump makes sense to lead anything. i wouldn't part put him in charge of a lemonade stand. >> and you understand why governor campwood? >> certainly brian has been a great leader. using him as an example we, should see these presidential candidates are they're trying to flail around and mince words, split hairs about donald trump. they have to take brian kemp's advice and, after you take the weekend off and go like to what he did to beat david perdue, that primary by 52% remember. , he was donald trump's best friend. he won by 52 points. then he's beat stacey abrams in a very wide open race. >> anna speaking, of the other candidates who were running for the republican nomination, jake tapper sat down with the gop governor ron desantis, this afternoon. he was claiming basically that the doj has been weaponized against donald trump here's. that moment. >> jack smith has been prosecuted democ

kevin mccarthy's pathetic plan to distract from donald trump's -- distract, excuse me, from donald trump'sblems. ♪ i've got symptom relief ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ feel significant symptom relief with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements at 4 weeks. skyrizi is the first and only il-23 inhibitor for crohn's that can deliver both clinical remission and endoscopic improvement. the majority of people on skyrizi achieved long lasting remission at 1 year. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. ask your gastroenterologist how you can take control of your crohn's with skyrizi. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ learn how abbvie could help you save. this is remington. he's a member of the family, for sure. we always fed him kibble it just seemed like the thing to do. but he was getting picky, and we started noticing som

own political standing with donald trump. i don't think it's going to hurt in the primary. >> david, we don't hear anything on this from president biden. i'm assuming that that's the strategy. assuming that strategy is in place for a while, all the way through this next indictment and probably georgia. is there any point in biden saying anything about any of this at that point? >> no. kevin mccarthy saying that the strategy sessions are having the department of justice, it's a laundry take you this, it's an example of how we've crossed those lines. he won't, because actually he in his administration respect the process. the independents of the justice department. if joe biden and donald trump and running against each other and face each other in the debate stage, i think it'll be more about the behavior in trump's lack of character. they don't want to have the country with a four-year nightmare. by the way, traditional, not to speak about that. i think they're handling a properly >>. good to talk to you, as always, we always

what did donald trump say on social media? >> he is saying quite explicitly that the justice department is saying that charges may be near for him in the january 6th investigation, and this is the investigation being conducted by special counsel jack smith and it has looked at donald trump very much so about what he did in the white house, and what he did after the 2020 election as well as others, and it has looked at the behavior of others and brought in many, many witnesses here, and at this time, that investigation appears to be so ripe that the justice department has been able to tell donald trump that the time is now if you want to speak to the grand jury in your own defense. that is something they allow people who are targets of an investigation to do, but it is often something that only happens at the very end of an investigation where the charging decision is so close that an indictment could come if in days if not weeks, and what trump is saying here is that the justice department sent a letter of sunday night of this

you know donald trump. is it possible trump was showing classified documents to people in private meetings? >> the short answer is yes. i watched him show documents to people at mar-a-lago on the dining room patio, so he has no respect for classified information. never did. >> now, taylor and graham's story should hardly come as a shock. the ex president has a storied history of sharing sensitive information. perhaps the most infamous example, 2017 oval office meeting between trump and russian foreign minister sergei lavrov, and russian ambassador sergei kyslyak. during that meeting, trump reportedly revealed highly classified information to his costs. information that was obtained via intelligence sharing information with another country. later revealed to be israel. then there's this tweet from trump in august 2019. the then president sent out a detailed aerial image of an iranian launchpad that experts at the time described as quote, almost certainly highly classified. i could go on and on about other ex

to push donald trump away. that is the problem they have. they know a vast majority of their base today totally and completely supports him. they defined their sense of self by discontinuing to support donald trump in spite of all the facts. that is only the case in the relationship with donald trump. the voters don't have that same relationship with other candidates like kari lake or id other candidates that have run. they distinguished those two things. for some reason, donald trump is in one place and all other candidates are judged on a different standard. >> we have seen a slight uptick in attack on trump from his primary levels. we played that down with mike pence hitting donald trump softly with election into ferrets after we sought ron desantis going after trump for being too lgbtq friendly. that is a bizarre line of attack. how are trump supporters, because i know you follow them online and watch the chatter, how are they responding online? do they notice the change, however minute from his fellow e re

strategy for donald trump? it has been to delay as much as possible. >> right. you know katie, it seems like it is a good bet, but i wouldn't want to speculate too far here. the question really is, who benefits from delay? why did it take walt nauta to find local council? why are we only just now seeing this motion to continue the hearing on friday that has been set for a couple of weeks? i know that you practice in the southern district of florida, judges in my district, they wouldn't look very kindly on that when nauta's we have known as soon as this hearing was scheduled that he had a conflict and could've advised the court back then. ultimately, these are the sort of nickel and dime delays the trump could perhaps be motivating, or perhaps it is just nauta's lawyers doing it on his own. it pushes things back a few days, but ultimately, that will get them into the crunch time as campaign kicks up for real. at that point, i'm sure that we will see trump himself asking for motions to continue, because he has ra

, donald trump's former u.s.hat debate stage may be even smaller without the current front-runner in attendance. donald trump has focused -- hinted heavily that he would skip the debate altogether. >> if i'm invited to the debate -- i'm probably here because of the debates. i don't mind it at all. but when you are 40 points up, and you are running against one -- came out today, you saw 51 points up. why would i let asa hutchinson, i call this man maniac for whatever reason -- why is that. i think he is weak and ineffective. but why would i let him, chris christie, who's got nothing going, except i can be tougher than trump. he's not tougher than anybody. why would i let these people -- why would i allow people that want to be hitting me with questions all night. i don't think it's fair. >> many of the other candidates have been skittish about going after the ex president, including his closest competition, florida governor desantis. he outsources sharpest attacks on trump to social media team. he released a deepl

but then again, neither does donald. so as i said before, de oliveira, tavares, all of these folks caught up in the web, they're going to understand what it's like to be stuck between a tsunami, a typhoon, a hurricane, and whatever else. >> you must understand what a powerful inducement it is for them that donald trump has found their attorneys for them and that he is -- his political pac is paying the attorneys' fees. i'm sure they don't have the money for that. >> yeah. well, the first thing they should do is separate out and figure out -- i'm sure there's somebody out there that would do it on pro bono if, in fact, they would come clean and tell the truth. the reason i say that, you may remember what happened with me and bob costello. bob costello was a plant in from giuliani in order to glean information from what we were doing in order to feed it back to the boss, right? it goes right back to the mob scenario. this is what they do. donald trump doesn't care about olivera. he doesn't care what happens to him and his

it was in the context of just because donald trump -- i'm paraphrasing here -- just because donald trumpng wrong or didn't do anything to stop the mob on that day doesn't mean that's criminal. he was saying nit a way of defending him, but he did suggest that donald trump should have done something on that day. then he backed off that, and his campaign, the trump people attacked him for it. they put out a truncated clip, believe it or not, and the desantis people pushed back saying, here's the whole clip. he was defending trump, et cetera. does it surprise you? >> so it's weird. the reason i say that, jake, is because a lot of republicans are trying to walk that fine line, of being critical of donald trump but not alienating his base. they're finding themselves having to contort into pretzels to do that. there aren't many outside of chris christie and asa hutchinson who have been firmly against the alaskas of donald trump. when ron desantis tries to fence it, you see that he has trouble doing that. nikki haley has the same problem doing that. many get in trouble when they do that. republi

i'm talking about donald trump. they are just still so openly and i think blindly collaborating with him. what gives? >> i mean at this, point should we feign surprise that this is their model? even after he has cost them three election cycles as you mentioned. they are not letting go of this guy, they're doing everything to contort themselves to keep supporting him. even the language from, i think mitch mcconnell said something. i won't comment on a candidate running for president. like okay, so that is the new line here everybody is going to be repeating now? it is a full-on cop out because what we do know is that this is the same donald trump mcconnell was waving a fist after january 6th and blame him practically for starting this attack. like this is the same guy. and so nothing's changed here. the only reality is republicans do not care what it takes. they are sticking with him even though he costs them elections and he will likely end up costing him 2024. >> we had the sound you are talking about of mitch mcco

with donald trump, and see that very often, even if donald trump -- the people around him are not. and it's just another lesson here, don't work for donald trump. from that kind of most low level person to the vice president, there is nobody who comes out unscathed from their association with this person. >> andrew goldstein, we're not, all you might remember he is the lead investigator for the bob mueller obstruction investigation. he told the new york times quote, demanding that evidence be destroyed is the most basic form of obstruction and it is easy for a jury to understand. he also said that what's described in this indictment is actually more quote, straightforwardly criminal, then the obstructive acts detailed in the mueller report. based on what you've seen, do you agree? how does evidence like this play in front of a jury? what would be your threshold to convince a jury that an obstruction request, or destruction of evidence request, did in fact take place? is it simple to say hearsay is going to be enough to convince jurors? >> well, first of all, great question. i agree

was from people close to donald trump. back to the point about january 6th, we know jack smith has the power of a federal grand jury. many of the people around trump, arm's length to congress. they gave limited cooperation. in a special counsel when you're under risk of being charged with perjury, it's a different thing. so the one thing we do know is trump is trying to lead the conversation here, as he did when the classified documents target letter gcame in. we found out that a lot of what we say today, i'm guessing it will be overwhelmed by what we see when jack smith delivers -- you don't send a letter like this unless you're prepared to move forward. >> you mentioned the fact that there's a lot of testimony. just look at the names that we're talking about. just to remind people, this grand jury has heard from mike pence, his former vice president, who obviously was very intimately involved with what happened. mark meadows, his chief of staff, and it goes on and on. >> a quick point about that. this focus on january 6t

and that they are trying to go get to them through donald trump and that donald trump is standing upas their champion. i think that other than that, scott is right. everyone else is waiting to see what happens, whether these other indictments will make a dent, and they want to be able to get all of those current trump supporters to come over and vote for them if that happens. folly: wright. bruce fein, for our international audience, what happens if a presidential candidate is indicted? guest: well, he has already been indicted. you are seeing it as you are speaking to three of us, we are watching things unfold. folly: will it hinder the campaign, i mean, will it hurt him in the polls? are there practical ways in which he could not be able to campaign, for example? guest: i don't think his numbers have been impacted substantially by the two outstanding indictments we have now, one in new york and one in mar-a-lago. i do think the political fallout would be greater if he is indicted for the january 6 insurrection. on that score, i want to call attention to another candidate, mike penc

but it also strengthens the case against donald trump. i don't think it was possible for this case to get worse against donald trump, but it just did. >> yeah. absolutely. it's increased pressure on walt nauta, who is facing even more serious charges. cooperation is not exhausted pre and i-10 and. what often happens in is in conspiracy cases in the superseding indictments but essentially ratchet up the stakes for charged coconspirators, prompts a reassessment as to whether or not corroboration is or isn't in the best interest of the defendant. walt nauta, were he to change from a named defendant to employee number two and actually provide even more cooperation of employees 4 and 5 it said in the tapes and surveillance footage shows would be a tremendously important witness for the government. he also was in the white house on january 6th. so he would have information not just about the classified documents in the movement, and movement of the boxes at mar-a-lago, but potentially significant information that would bear upon the other porti

than voting for or voting against donald trump?ning me now is nbc news senior capitol hill correspondent garrett haake. punch bowl news cofounder and msnbc political contributor, jake sherman, and former rnc chairman and msnbc political analyst, michael steele. jake, as somebody who knows mccarthy best, can you give us a sense of why he has not endorsed the man who arguably put him in the position to be speaker of the house? >> well, garrett and i spend a lot of time chasing kevin mccarthy, probably more time than we would care to admit. a few thoughts here, number one, the speaker of the house on the republican side has typically stayed away from endorsing. paul ryan said he was the chairman of the convention in 2016, and did not endorse trump until closer to the election time. you'll remember that well, katy. that was a big to do. if i had to read the tea leaves without, you know, having spoken to mccarthy about this, we've been outside of washington where congress has been outside of washington for some time now. i think mccarth

donald trump, you actually have to do just that, you actually have to build a campaign against donaldfundamentals of campaign politics, they have not changed for decades. and that is, if you have someone ahead of you, you're going to have to give the voters a reason, especially when it's an incumbent. and he's an incumbent in the race. you have to give them a reason to fire the incumbent in order to hire you. look to an earlier point about desantis, when you play the clip of desantis on msnbc earlier today with the reaction, he talked about how the criminal justice system is being politicized. so, he's already answered that question to a certain extent, because he's, again, coming to donald trump's support. and at some point, you just can't get ahead of the person. you can't have the -- make the case that you should fire the person who is the incumbent and replace them with you, if you are in fact supporting them. the last point i'll make here is this, and i think this is important for if i were looking internally from a campaign standpoint. the ethic stuff is never going to move dona

it's also a question for donald trump., you know, we'll see what he does -- >> it's about trump. >> i know. it's actually very true. the other question is whether or not they will sign a pledge which are rnc is requiring to support whomever the nominee is. listen to the way many of the other candidates who are not trump have answered that question. >> you run this process, you compete, and you respect the outcome of the process. >> you have to make the pledge based on the fact that donald trump is not going to be our nominee and you're confident of it. >> i think the pledge is just a useless idea. >> i don't think my old running mate is going to be the republican nominee for president. and i'm very confident, very confident that i'll be able to support the republican nominee. >> so let me just paraphrase, that's everybody trying to get around the idea that they're going to probably sign this pledge to get on the debate stage, even though they don't really want to support donald trump. there's an exception to that and that

and that's the case for donald trump in my estimation.have a more friendly jury in florida than you are in washington, d.c., but again all of this comes down to at the end of the day that jury will be instructed on the law and whether the facts meet the elements of the crime, and they're going to have to make a determination based upon the facts and marrying that up to the law and say whether a crime is being committed. so a lot of that plays into, you know, how popular is he. how unpopular is he, but at the end of the day, george, typically, you'll get a jury of your peers that will sit before and that will listen to the testimony and make judgments and lawyers, good lawyers are going to be striking jurors in the jury selection process and making determinations on who would be a good jury. you will get a fair jury and they'll look at the evidence in the facts and make a determination. >> very quickly, if possible. you get a trial more quickly, a court date more quickly than they appear to be getting in florida? >> so no, i don't think so

for that matter, donald trump right now. there is a sense -- depending on the individual, i know where you're coming from, maybe that that is in order. there should be a competencesive test. maybe it extends to people younger. how do you feel about that? >> i don't think we need a competency test to know that joe biden is no longer competent to be president of the united states. you can see it every day. when you fall asleep in the oval office while the whole media is watching in a chair across from the president of israel, i don't think need to wonder whether joe biden is competent to be president of the united states. i don't think we need him to take a medical test. in the same way as donald trump shows his continued anger and selfishness and petulence. 70% of the american people say they don't want this matchup to be donald trump against joe biden. two guys that on election day, a combined 160 years old. past their sell-by date, neil. the american people will decide that. i believe they'll decide on our party before the

around a figure to oust donald trump. and i don't understand what the republican party, look, i'm not a math guy, i'm a simpleton at politics, but of 35% of the base likes donald trump, that means 65% would prefer somebody else. why can't they agree, why can't they get together and say hey, let's all fields a candidate that we think can go up against donald trump and get rid of this nightmare? >> dude, i've been preaching it for the last six or eight months. i don't know why the party doesn't corral one of these individuals on the stage to just say, this is the horse that's going to write us to the brave new world. and that base, small though it is, it's outsized in the money it produces, and the power it wields. and that, even in a parliamentary system, can overwhelm the system sometimes. >> just like what happened to will hurd. as you said, booed there just for speaking truth to power. on a personal note, i just want to say that it's the first time i've seen you in person. thank you so much for filling in for me a coupl

but donald trump is popular. it is a cult.is tough to break people from that spell but we have to keep trying. >> miles taylor and adam kinzinger, thank you both very much. >>> up next, another major development today, trump's lawyers meeting with the special counsel as he awaits a third indictment involving efforts to overturn the election. hear what happened in that meeting and what it means for his legal peril. this is cnn's special live coverage. to reel in the fun and serve up great times.. to help you get readyy your aspen dental team is celebebrating 25 years of affordable caree with an epic summer of smiles event. right now, new patients without insurance get a free full exam and x-rays. plus, everyone can get 20% off their treatment plan. but hurry, because while these summer savings won't last, the memories you make together will. aspen dental. book today. the first time you connected your godaddy website and your store was also the first time you realized... well, we can do anything. cheesecake cookies? the chookie!

trump did in fact send a letter to donald trump.ppening here this is a very telling moment into the investigation. >> what's the process now? >> so, the process, jack smith sent this letter, donald trump will assume the truth of this given four days to appear before a grand jury, he will not do that, that would be incredibly self-ingrim criminating to do t. jack smith assuming he's given the grand jury, saying here are the defendants i propose to charge and here are the charges and instruct the grand jury as to the law. and take a vote from the grand jury, assuming they vote yes which grand juries almost always do, we will have an indictment. it could be sealed. when means in a moment in time there's an indictment, but we don't actually get to see it. and that's on a fairly short time frame. >> in the mar-a-lago documents case, he received a target letter, he was indicted. >> within days. >> within days. in this case, he said he received a target letter that is expectation that he could be indicted. in the mar-a-lago documents case,

and we are not going into this question of donald trump cold.ganization, c.r.e.w., last year represented residence in new mexico who brought a legal action against a guy named hugh we griffin, a founder of a group called cowboys for trump, somebody who organized people to come to washington on january 6, 2021. he participated in a press tour, rounding people up for that. he was on the steps of the capitol spurring people on to go into the capitol and use force and the court ultimately found that january 6, 2021 was an insurrection for the purposes of the 14th amendment of the constitution and found that this person, even though he was not personally violent, but wasn't somebody who organized it incited, engaged -- violent, but was somebody who organized and incited, engaged in insurrection. we think there's a strong law as to what the framers of the 14th amendment had in mind when they wrote this provision and what insurrection means today and that it applies pretty directly to the events of 2021 and to donald trump. that's ultimately going to b